59 replies to this topic

[Alessandro A.]

Where is the trade topics????

[Phoenixflood]

After about 50 posts the trade thread should open up for you.

[fig rocks]

Can't you view Members Trades and Sales section before that?

[Auspex]

fig rocks, on 16 December 2009 - 06:57 PM, said:

Can't you view Members Trades and Sales section before that?

That is the way it was originally set-up when we went to the setting to restrict access to established members. It was made visible to all as a hopeful experiment, but proved to be a magnet still for non-contributing dealers looking for the free advertising.

[Nicholas]

Auspex, on 16 December 2009 - 07:12 PM, said:

That is the way it was originally set-up when we went to the setting to restrict access to established members. It was made visible to all as a hopeful experiment, but proved to be a magnet still for non-contributing dealers looking for the free advertising.

Although it has become less, not significantly, but noticeably.

[Louie]

Sorry...but requiring 50 posts just to "view" the trade & sale topic...let alone not being able to post in it...is just lame. You probably cut out 90% or more of your FF members to it. I understand not wanting dealers all over the place... but still We're all big boys and girls aren't we? Frustrated... I bought most of my collection from a source on here. No more

[Auspex]

You, obviously, were not around when all the vultures moved in.
We want established members to be able to trade with, and sell too, each other, but when every shady seller on the internet was spamming us to distraction, everything legit was lost in the deluge.

Lame? There are plenty of commercial sites available; this one is for members to share their passion.

[Nicholas]

Louie, on 21 December 2009 - 10:17 PM, said:

Sorry...but requiring 50 posts just to "view" the trade & sale topic...let alone not being able to post in it...is just lame. You probably cut out 90% or more of your FF members to it. I understand not wanting dealers all over the place... but still We're all big boys and girls aren't we? Frustrated... I bought most of my collection from a source on here. No more

We're not here to please individual members, we're here to benefit the forum collectively. The intention of this forum is not for commercial or personal sales. It is a nice feature, but when members/dealers don't establish themselves on the forum properly it leads to much forum turbulence. As the forum is growing exponentially, even with this new rule, I don't see it hindering our memberships at all.

[sharkdentist]

Louie, on 21 December 2009 - 10:17 PM, said:

Sorry...but requiring 50 posts just to "view" the trade & sale topic...let alone not being able to post in it...is just lame. You probably cut out 90% or more of your FF members to it. I understand not wanting dealers all over the place... but still We're all big boys and girls aren't we? Frustrated... I bought most of my collection from a source on here. No more

well ok your opinion is duly noted, you could like it or leave it but rules are rules.

[Bear]

As a champion of moderation (philosophic), the 50 post rule seems very reasonable. As a capitalist entrepreneur, I have no problem with professionals selling their wares. As a mathematician I must say that "exponential" is a tad optimistic.

We are here for a variety of reasons, but camaraderie (ongoing social contact with other adults who share your interests) is at the top of that list. I have observed a tenancy towards excessive protectionism and must point out that such will dampen creativity and ardor to the detriment of membership participation.

The number of adults that are interested in fossils is very small in respect to the general population, the number of children interested in fossils is much smaller than that. If you wish to draw more adult members, you need more interesting and intriguing site content. That content must be generated by the current members. While some of that content will be science, much will be social, because that is a major reason that many persons are here. They will add that content if they are secure, involved and planning to stick around. To get them to that point, you merely have to treat them very well, with respect, compassion and civility. This means all members, including the newbies, the uneducated, the eccentric and the handicapped.

If you want more children to become members here, you need to put a note on the front page that says something like "You must be 18 years of age to enter this site due to adult content. By clicking here you state that you are at least 18 years of age." You then let members talk freely as adults on whatever topics they want to. That will get more children to join up. It will also get more undercover LEO.

Otherwise, this is not really a topic that most kids (like most adults) are interested in. My son says that coming to this site is sorta like going to school and hanging out with the teachers...after you have already left that behind for the day. It ain't gonna happen.

Maybe you guys should put together some kind of manifesto or statement of purpose if you have philosophic goals that you are striving to accomplish with this site. Make it real clear to all concerned why you have put it up and what you wish to accomplish with it. While statements like "we are here for the promotion of science" and "we need to keep this a G - rated site so that the children are not exposed to bad stuff" sound real noble, they don't really mean anything and come off as an excuse/rationalization to do what you want to do for arbitrary personal reasons. Doing good science promotes good science and there are few to no children to be concerned about. (see above)

Bear in mind that more rules and restrictions you put up and the harsher the methods that you employ to enforce those, the fewer and more select the growth in membership.

Just my thoughts, I will be glad to discuss these issues further as needed.

[Auspex]

In a nutshell, what we'd like to see perpetuated is a fossil-centric sharing at all levels of fascination. This is a social network, and the camaraderie among the members is one of the most enjoyable aspects, as long as it remains a refuge from the flood of off-topic forwarded emails and political dross so prevalent on the interweb. Beyond that, every member is entitled to an environment of common decency, and that behavior is expected.

[fig rocks]

Bear, on 22 December 2009 - 10:23 AM, said:

Just my thoughts, I will be glad to discuss these issues further as needed.

Here, here!

[Gatorman]

Bear I enjoyed your post, and what you say is true. Problem is that we do have a mission statement and the rules are very clear but the problem is no one reads or adheres to the dang things. The rules are posted in two separate locations but new members never read them, they join and then they begin posting and complaining when we edit a post or ask them not to do something sometimes the moderation team feels like a group of middle school bus drivers with a load of ESE kids.

[Louie]

Nicholas, on 21 December 2009 - 11:25 PM, said:

We're not here to please individual members, we're here to benefit the forum collectively. The intention of this forum is not for commercial or personal sales. It is a nice feature, but when members/dealers don't establish themselves on the forum properly it leads to much forum turbulence. As the forum is growing exponentially, even with this new rule, I don't see it hindering our memberships at all.

I didn't think taking away the viewership of trade & sale would hinder membership numbers. I was merely guessing that 90% of the membership have less than 50 posts. If true, it affects the vast majority of members. T & S was very interesting & educational to me (even though I couldn't post in it) because I could see what people had for sale or trade & what the approximate market prices were.

[Seldom]

Louie, on 22 December 2009 - 10:54 PM, said:

I didn't think taking away the viewership of trade & sale would hinder membership numbers. I was merely guessing that 90% of the membership have less than 50 posts. If true, it affects the vast majority of members. T & S was very interesting & educational to me (even though I couldn't post in it) because I could see what people had for sale or trade & what the approximate market prices were.

First Louie 90% of the members have less the 5 post they join ask a question get a answer and we never see them again. Second we have some of biggest and best dealers in the county on the forum and they don't use the T&S. They come here to exchange information not sell fossils and everyone of them could make money by posting in T&S.
I think that the T&S thread is the biggest head ache the moderation team has and they do this for free for us people they don't even know why do we want to make their job harder.
I feel we should do away with the T&S thread completely and make every ones life easier.

[Auspex]

Louie, on 22 December 2009 - 10:54 PM, said:

...T & S was very interesting & educational to me (even though I couldn't post in it) because I could see what people had for sale or trade & what the approximate market prices were.

That is a good point, Louie, and I really am sorry for the inconvenience.

[Bear]

Thanks for the props, Anson. I have read the rules page a few times, it seems pretty straight - forward to me, but then, I have written a couple of TOU's myself and appreciate what goes into them. I also appreciate the difficulties of rational moderation, having been on both sides of that effort as well. I look at stuff that may not be real evident to many more casual users though...

I would strongly advise against removing the trade/exchange forum if for no other reason than that it is controversial. This even if it is difficult to moderate. It remains a major site draw. I value its potential despite that I have not yet used it.

I would have advised against removing the jokes forum as well, despite that I didn't frequent it, for the same reasons. If you remove all of the controversy and discord, you remove much of the excitement that people find so intriguing. If there is no action, there is little interest and the viewership goes down. If you wish the site to grow you will need to encourage a certain amount of uncertainty and variance for that daily stop - by. You want the user to wonder what will be happening on the site each day rather than to know exactly that they will merely see the 'same old same old'.

Again, a certain amount of discord, disagreement and controversy is necessary to make and keep a web site interesting. If things get too calm and agreeable people get bored and move on, this is just the way things are. This also challenges the staff and moderators, keeping the game lively and entertaining for them as well.

I see a lot of potential here, but it needs some time and encouragement to develop. This will require a continued interest on the part of those members and staff who can help grow the site. Anything that can be done to encourage that should be done, IMHO, even if it is a bit of work, inconvenient or a hassle.

[tracer]

I probably shouldn't scan the forum while on the road, and I definitely shouldn't post much when I'm exhausted, because my real personality might come out.

Having thus qualified my thoughts - much of what is said above is couched in language without qualifiers, as if it represents universalities, or "truths". Ego causes myopia, and should therefore be kept in check when attempting to see clearly. There is nothing wrong with the vision cris and gatorman have for their board. There is also no reason they should change it to suit others' personal agendas or take it away from the mainstream, "centered" position they chose, regardless of how many people (you'll never convince me it's a majority) are interested in skankiness, a quick buck, or watching a good fight.

My position is that all members should respect the huge efforts of the forum ownership and administration and try to support the forum being the way THEY want it to be, rather than constantly telling them how it should be different. Particularly if you don't contribute much on-topic fossil-related content, or if you're relatively new here. I mean, come on, these guys have spent several years and thousands of hours of effort building this place and you're gonna waltz in and tell them how it oughta be? It's a good forum.

[Frank Menser]

Well it's almost a year since I joined. I have posted, sold an item or two and...well, asked a lot of questions and posted a lot of photos (hence my big post number). I like being able to come here and not have dealers all over the place trying to sell me something or buy what I have (unless I post it for sale).

Fifty posts is nothing to anyone who is really sincere about their 'non commercial' fossil interest. Sorry, but when I see post #51 is a sales item, I just write that person off as a phoney who just wants another sales outlet.

I like coming here for the fun and education the site provides, to brag about my latest aquisition and to drool over other's - as well as read about their hunting and even catch a news item or two. It also allows me the opportunity to offer fossils I have no need of and can make trades with - and make new friends who can converse with intelligent interest in an area (where to be honest) few of my nieghbors share.

If that 50 post requirement is irksome to the business crowd, Tough Twitties...

[Phoenixflood]

I am glad for the ability to log on and see so many fossils from so many different places. I enjoy learning from the people of this forum. We all have different outlooks on live but we all come here for a common love, fossils.

When I want to trade with someone, I like to look through their posts, or have a general idea of who they are. You have to stand out, or you have to be reputable.