Coco Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Hi, Today, I propose you a file on eggs of current selachians (mermaid purses). I am interested in this subject for several years, and in about ten movements towards the Atlantic Coast, I think of having collected more than 1.000 eggs of recent sharks and skates. Here is the result of my searches. All these photos represent photos of dry eggs, thus a little deformed by the drying and smaller than the reality (except Dipturus batis, whom you can see so wet). All the dimensions are indicated "dried"). To begin, here is my only egg of Dipturus batis, the common skate. To my knowledge, one year ago it was the only specimen of this species found failed on an Atlantic Ocean beach. Dimensions : 11 X 6 cms (4" 1/3 X 2" 1/3). Exceptionally, you can see pics of this wet egg, that is freshly collected (it was exceptional enough so that I paint its face before its drying). You can observe the deformation due to the drying. Both images were not taken in the same direction : the top of the 1st represents the bottom of second. I show you now an egg of Galeus melastomus, blackmouth cat shark. This small-sized egg is also the only representative of this species which I was able to find on our coast. This little shark is a member of the same family as the small dogfish (Scyliorhinus canicula), moreover their eggs are alike, but I shall explain you the differences when I shall arrived to present you this species. Size of the egg : 4,5 X 1,5 cm (1" 4/5 X 3/5). Now, here is a Leucoraja naevus egg, the cockoo ray. It is so called because it has a darker circle drawn (looking like a naevus) on each wing. Size : 9 X 3 cms with horns (3" 1/2 X 1" 1/5). You are lucky ! I made a photo of a male Leucoraja naevus, then I share it with you. This species does not reach big sizes. Ah ah ! I also have a female pic ! Let us pass now in an egg of Raja brachyura, a blonde ray. This egg has a superior size to the majority of the other selachian eggs, without any time to reach the size of the ones of Dipturus batis . Size : 15 X 5,5 cms with horns (5" 9/10 X 2" 2/5). We can observe below eggs of Raja clavata, the famous thornback ray. Why this name? Because it is covered with sharp buckles ("batoïdes bucklet" which we find fossilized in particular in french faluns). If we do not take precautions, we can very hurt by treating these lines. Curiously, it is the species which my fishmonger has most, but we do not find a lot of eggs of this species on our beaches. Size : 10 X 5 cm (3" 9/10 X 1" 9/10). Here is now a Raja microocellata egg, the small-eyed ray. I have only one specimen of this species, and I have not found it myself. Size : 9 X 4 cms with horns (3" 1/2 X 1" 3/5). Let us continue with a Raja montagui egg, the spotted ray. It has to represent approximately 10 % of my fishmonger rays. Size : 9 X 3 cms with horns (3" 1/2 X 1" 2/5). Then, let me continue with a Raja undulata egg, the undulate ray. It is by far the most frequent egg on our coast from Vendée (Central West France). This species has very often seaweeds and a little of marine vegetation attached on its sides. Size : 12,5 X 5,5 cm (5" 9/10 X 2" 1/5). And as this species is the one whose most heavyweights we find, you are entitled to a second image ! And there, lucky persons, you will be entitled to two boards of eggs of Scyliorhinus canicula, the small-spotted catshark ! On this one, you will see a small series of eggs, with various colors. I think that the tint comes from the past to the solar or lunar light. More the time of exposure is long, more they turn pale. Here, all are empty (as all the eggs which I presented you). If you look well at the top of these eggs, all of them taken in the same direction, like the Galeus melastomusone in the beginning of comment, you will see that on the blackmouth catshark egg, the part of the top is almost closed on itself, while here, for the small-spotted catshark, it is opened well. The blackmouth catshark does not present "horns", but I do not know if it lost them, or if it really has no it. Size averages eggs : 6,5 X 2,5 cms with horns (2" 1/2 X 1"). That one presents two eggs torn away from seaweeds by a storm before their birth. We can distinguish the yellow part of the egg. One of these eggs is still hung on a seaweed. Here is the eggs of one Scyliorhinus stellaris, the nursehound. It is a species different from the small-spotted catshark (it is not about the adult and the young species). The egg is bigger, at least 2,5 times the size of that of a small-spotted catshark. I have not found it myself, unfortunatly I do not know where it comes from. Size : 10 X 3 cm (4" X 1" 2/5). Now here are two species of shark eggs I didn't found myself. They are very different than the other species. The first one is an Heterodontus portusjacksoni, the Port Jackson shark. Size : 12 cm de long (4" X 3/4). The second one is an eggcase of Heterodontus francisci, the horn shark. Size : 9,5 cm de long (3" X 3/4). To finish this presentation, here is a nest of eggs of a small-spotted catshark. This nest contains more than 200 eggs and ran aground on a beach. A friend found it and give me this spectacular nest. We can notice on these images that eggs do not have all the same stage of development. Some of them are already empty, whereas the others still present the yellow of the egg. We can deduct from it that one or several females came to lay, at the different moments, in the same place. Thus this nest results well from an area of heavyweight. Regrettably for babies, they ran aground on the beach... It is the 1st time I have seen a nest of selachian eggs. It is even more impressive when it is fresh. ********************* I find the eggs failed on beaches with seaweeds. They can be even attached there. I find there easily after spring tides or after storms, my biggest harvest having been made in October, 2006 ! I do not indeed remember myself any more, but on the afternoon I had had to find more than 400... Eggs are made by an a little bit special, rotproof material. Thus, that has no stench, and to preserve them, it is enough to air them. Then, when I have time to begin it, I put them again in freswater to reinflate them, wash them and identify them (it is easier when they are wet and reinflated). If you find selachian eggs and if you indeed want to send them to me (I could even return you some french identified species), it is important to note the beach and the date of finding, to allow me to make a precise statement of finds. I make an inventory different species of the heavyweights found on our frenc coasts, (but if you find some species on your coasts, that also interests me! They will not be necessarily the same species). One day, I found the egg with a baby ray which was being born, but which ran aground before reaching there... I tidied up it, but doubtless too indeed because I did not find it ! If I find my photo or my baby ray, I would show it to you with pleasure. This file is a little bit long, I thank you for having read to me till the end. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Coco.... Great report and fantastic collection.... I enjoyed reading it earlier... I found a fossil Palaeoxyris eggcase you are welcome to have as an example... unfortunately the other half of the nodule broke but this half is good and not too heavy for posting... If you would like to send me some details of where to send it you would be very welcome to have it... I will keep my eyes peeled on the beach for modern eggcases now I know someone who might want them.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 Hi Terry, Woh ! I am moved and vague for your proposition. A lot of thanks for your present! I will MP you fast! Glad to read you will "open your eyes" on english beaches for me ! Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefootgirl Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Wonderful information and picts. Thanks for sharing with us. In formal logic, a contradiction is the signal of defeat: but in the evolution of real knowledge, it marks the first step in progress toward victory. Alfred North Whithead 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Very interesting and informative topic Coco, cheers. KOF, Bill. Welcome to the forum, all new members www.ukfossils check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 19, 2010 Author Share Posted November 19, 2010 Hi, Many thanks to you, lady and gentlemen ! I love my Heterodontus portusjacksoni pic, and I think I will try to make new pictures with a better quality ! Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossisle Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Awesome thread Coco! Cephalopods rule!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nandomas Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Great post, Coco. Those are my modern (selachinan?) eggcases from Cape Hatteras seashore, NC. Erosion... will be my epitaph! http://www.paleonature.org/ https://fossilnews.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 20, 2010 Author Share Posted November 20, 2010 Thanks Nando. I think they are from rays, but I don't know the american species... Selachians are : rayes/skates + sharks + chimaera = all the cartilagineous fishes. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Coco, This is a great topic. I don't know of any Mesozoic or Cenozoic fossil egg case finds (something to ask about). I noticed the H. francisci specimen. This is the species known from the California coast. The genus in the photo captions is incorrect (Heterocentrotus). Hi, Today, I propose you a file on eggs of current selachians (mermaid purses). I am interested in this subject for several years, and in about ten movements towards the Atlantic Coast, I think of having collected more than 1.000 eggs of recent sharks and skates. Here is the result of my searches. All these photos represent photos of dry eggs, thus a little deformed by the drying and smaller than the reality (except Dipturus batis, whom you can see so wet). All the dimensions are indicated "dried"). To begin, here is my only egg of Dipturus batis, the common skate. To my knowledge, one year ago it was the only specimen of this species found failed on an Atlantic Ocean beach. Dimensions : 11 X 6 cms (4" 1/3 X 2" 1/3). I find the eggs failed on beaches with seaweeds. They can be even attached there. I find there easily after spring tides or after storms, my biggest harvest having been made in October, 2006 ! I do not indeed remember myself any more, but on the afternoon I had had to find more than 400... Eggs are made by an a little bit special, rotproof material. Thus, that has no stench, and to preserve them, it is enough to air them. Then, when I have time to begin it, I put them again in freswater to reinflate them, wash them and identify them (it is easier when they are wet and reinflated). If you find selachian eggs and if you indeed want to send them to me (I could even return you some french identified species), it is important to note the beach and the date of finding, to allow me to make a precise statement of finds. I make an inventory different species of the heavyweights found on our frenc coasts, (but if you find some species on your coasts, that also interests me! They will not be necessarily the same species). One day, I found the egg with a baby ray which was being born, but which ran aground before reaching there... I tidied up it, but doubtless too indeed because I did not find it ! If I find my photo or my baby ray, I would show it to you with pleasure. This file is a little bit long, I thank you for having read to me till the end. Coco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 21, 2010 Author Share Posted November 21, 2010 Hi, I noticed the H. francisci specimen. This is the species known from the California coast. The genus in the photo captions is incorrect (Heterocentrotus). Thanks Siteseer for your intervention. I am sorry, but I did not understand what was false in my legend concenant the egg of heterocentrotus francisci. Do you think this eggcase is not from H. francisci ? Isn't H. francisci a horn shark ? Please let me know and I am going to restore my error Here is a pic of H. francisci. Mine is not well preserved http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Horn_shark_egg_morro_bay.jpg Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Coco, they are Heterodontus, which you put in the script, but you have labelled your pic's as Heterocentrotus. Heterocentrotus are echinoids. KOF, Bill. Welcome to the forum, all new members www.ukfossils check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 21, 2010 Author Share Posted November 21, 2010 wohhhh Thanks a lot Bill ! Sometimes, my two passions (sharks and sea urchins) mix ! I just rectified the pics legend. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Excellent topic, Coco et al.. I am learning a lot and really a fascinating subject! Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nandomas Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Found another horn shark eggcase picture, this time taken at Venice shark festival Erosion... will be my epitaph! http://www.paleonature.org/ https://fossilnews.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 24, 2010 Author Share Posted November 24, 2010 Hi Nando, Your egg is certainly from an Heterodontus, but it exists 8 different species + one not identified : - H. francisci, - H. galeatus, - H. japonicus, - H. mexicanus, - H. portusjacksoni, - H. quoyi, - H. ramalheira, - H. zebra. Heterodontiforms contain only Heterodontidae family, with only one genus. Before, Heterodontiforms was mixed with Squaliforms sharks. I didn't search if all of Heterodontidae are oviparous. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonmammalian Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Interesting to see other people with shark egg collections! Here is a pic of some of my eggs. First row, Cephaloscyliium ? sp. Western Australia Cephaloscyllium lasciteps Cephaloscyllium ventriosum, California Scyliorhinus tokubee, Japan Scyliorhinus torazame, Japan Scyliorhinus canicula, Portugal Galeus melastomus, Portugal Schroederichthys bivius, Uruguay Second row: Hemiscyllium trispeculare, Norther Australia Pseudoginglymostoma brevicaudatum, East Africa Heterodontus zebra, Taiwan Heterodontus francisci, California and some Mazon Creek fossilised eggs above Chris http://www.benthicsharks.ca/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Woh ! Do you have more specimens to do exchanges ? I have some species in numerous pieces. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordpiney Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 there are so many on the beaches around here, that i dont even notice them anymore. if anyone wants any, just let me know, and i'll collect some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagurus Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Thank you sharing your wonderful collection, Coco! I love these! I will try to find some of my own photos of a young skate I hatched from an egg in my aquarium. We have lots of egg cases on our beaches here in Massachusetts, but only a few different species. Thank you for sharing your knowledge about these animals. Mike Start the day with a smile and get it over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonmammalian Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Coco, thanks for the interest, I'll gladly send you a package, check your pm box. I have an unlimited supply of several species of eggs since I am breeding them. Mike, thats really neat that you hatched a skate. Try to find the pics! Take a look at this other egg of mine Chris http://www.benthicsharks.ca/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hi, Nonmammalian, thanks a lot for your video, it is fantastic and very interesting ! What is the species of this baby shark ? there are so many on the beaches around here, that i dont even notice them anymore. if anyone wants any, just let me know, and i'll collect some. Thank you sharing your wonderful collection, Coco! I love these! I will try to find some of my own photos of a young skate I hatched from an egg in my aquarium. We have lots of egg cases on our beaches here in Massachusetts, but only a few different species. Thank you for sharing your knowledge about these animals. Mike Lordpiney and Pagurus, I would be very interested in seeing (and having) the species of selachian eggs from your coasts. I just need date and place of harvest for every egg. They would also allow me to enrich this subject with new species. I can exchange some identify species from French coasts. Pagurus, eggs of certain species are very similar, they can present few differences (see Scyliorhinus canicula and Galeus melastomus). If somebody else finds shark, skate or chimaera eggs on his coasts, I am very interested in them, so as to obtain a maximum of world species with their information of origin and of date of harvest. Thanks to you. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagurus Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Thanks for this thread, Coco. Nonmamalian, I enjoyed watching your video. You said that you breed these eggs? Do the fish lay the eggs in your tanks? The egg cases I find on the beaches here in Massachusetts are usually those of the Little Skate, Raja erinacea. They are usually empty, but occasionally I find one with a living embryo inside. A few years ago I was able to hatch one of them, but the skate only survived about two months. This past year I was able to hatch another egg case, which I did not find myself, but came from a marine laboratory here in New England where they keep a few adult skates. I kept it in one of my aquaria for about two weeks before it hatched. This young skate was deformed, as you see in the pictures. Maybe pathological would be a better word to use here. There is a whip-like end to its long tail, which seems to help the embryo in the egg case by creating a current within the case to help oxygenate the water. Here are a few photos: Start the day with a smile and get it over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 Pagurus, your baby ray pics are very interesting ! The poor baby has really a pathology I never seen on (adult or not) ray. Don't hesitate to put your mermaid purse pics or selachian egg pics. I suppose chimaera eggs are very rare because it is a deep fish. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonmammalian Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Coco, I am glad that you liked the video. The species hatching there is a Hemiscyllium trispeculare. Pagurus, very interesting that you hatched a skate from your coast! Good luck with your skates in the future. I have shark eggs being laid and hatching every month. I almost have their full life cycle documented on video, from mating to the eggs being laid and hatching. I would suggest using a very fine substrate in the future so that waste does not become trapped and accumilate. Rough substrates can lead to skin irritation and infection. Chris http://www.benthicsharks.ca/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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