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Casts?


brachiomyback

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Unique shaped finds from Lee Creek / Aurora spoils...

post-986-0-59592400-1317872162_thumb.jpg

Anybody know what they are?

Casts?

thanks

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Ha ha, they kind of look like coprolites... But I really have no idea.

DO, or do not. There is no try.

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Wow those are tiny and numerous. Nice find! Sorry I cannot be of any help with ID'ing these but I am very curious to learn more about where and in what conditions you found these! Were they close to each other (grouped?)when you found them or scattered? Were they buried or on the surface? Are they 'wet' in the picture or shiny dry? Good stuff Brachio!

Edited by Kehbe

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.

Charles Darwin

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Not old enough to be belemnites. These most likely come out of the Miocene aged Pungo River Formation. I find them quite a bit while searching for small teeth and I've never been able to identify them. I'm pretty sure they are an internal mold of something but I can't figure out what that something can be.

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Okay, I'm going to go way out on a limb here and probably say something dumb, but then it wouldn't be the first time I've ever done that. I don't know my Echinoderms at all and I know that echinoderms can cover a large variety so I am wondering, is it possible that these may be some type of spines or what have you from some type of uncommon Echinoderm??? I know that the Forum has some very knowledgeable members in that area of fossils and hope someone might openly laugh at my suggestion or call it possible.

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius

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Those look like the bullet weights I use for soft plastic lures when I'm bass fishing.:) I'm thinking belemnites also, because of the shape. Maybe they were fossilized in a mesozoic formation then eroded out and were re-deposited...I'm no expert on molluscs, but that's my two cents' worth. Hope that helps.

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Hi,

Okay, I'm going to go way out on a limb here and probably say something dumb, but then it wouldn't be the first time I've ever done that. I don't know my Echinoderms at all and I know that echinoderms can cover a large variety so I am wondering, is it possible that these may be some type of spines or what have you from some type of uncommon Echinoderm??? I know that the Forum has some very knowledgeable members in that area of fossils and hope someone might openly laugh at my suggestion or call it possible.

They can't be sea urchin spines. The big thorns of sea urchins are attached to the skeleton with an articulation. We would see it necessarily on spines.

I thought too of belemnites, but you say that the age is not good.

Coco

----------------------
OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici

Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici
Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici
Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici
Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici
Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici
Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici

Un Greg...

Badges-IPFOTH.jpg.f4a8635cda47a3cc506743a8aabce700.jpg Badges-MOTM.jpg.461001e1a9db5dc29ca1c07a041a1a86.jpg

 

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Those look like the bullet weights I use for soft plastic lures when I'm bass fishing....:)

I used to get fooled by lead bullets that looked just like a NY Devonian stalkless crinoid cup. I'd get excited seeing it and then when I picked it up it would be just a bit too heavy....

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Those look like the bullet weights I use for soft plastic lures when I'm bass fishing.:) I'm thinking belemnites also, because of the shape. Maybe they were fossilized in a mesozoic formation then eroded out and were re-deposited...I'm no expert on molluscs, but that's my two cents' worth. Hope that helps.

I thought the same when I saw them.

post-986-0-04928300-1318167442_thumb.jpg

I decided to break apart a more "beat up" specimen.

Based on the texture of material on the cross section, it does appears to be a steinkern of some sort.

post-986-0-80903700-1318167451_thumb.jpg

thanks for the opines....

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Hello Coco,

I was just trying to think of possabilities based on what type of fossils I have seen and or collected from the same site these came from. I have found sea urchins there and I was doing google image searches and found a few items of interest. They certainly don't prove my theory since none are dead ringers but I know just enough about Echinoderms to be dangerous. (mostly to myself) I do wan't to share my thought process with a few pictures for reference as to where I was going with this idea. The first picture shows spines??? that closely resemble to me what he has found although his would be "steinkerns" The second picture shows how varied in size, shape and styles these spines can be and I wonder what the inside of the longer spines would look like, especially the last portion of the tip and the third picture is the most intriguing to me. Look what is inside a broke open Sea Urchin. I don't know if this is inside all of them or not as I have never broke open one but you can bet I just have to sacrifice one of my sea urchins for the greater good of learning. I'm probably still wrong but it sure seems possible to someone who knows little about this type of fossil. Just a self confession here, but I usually don't mind throwing ideas around even when a lot of the times I am shown to be publicly wrong because when that happens, I learn something and that is a good thing especially if I have saved someone else who shys away from showing what they don't know to others :thumbsu: .

Credit for the images that I have posted are as follows 1st. picture fossilmail.com 2nd. picture twoguysfossils.com and 3rd picture alshindagah.com

Hi,

They can't be sea urchin spines. The big thorns of sea urchins are attached to the skeleton with an articulation. We would see it necessarily on spines.

I thought too of belemnites, but you say that the age is not good.

Coco

post-6069-0-16458100-1318351944_thumb.jpg

post-6069-0-57489400-1318351976_thumb.jpg

post-6069-0-91365300-1318351996_thumb.jpg

Edited by Sharkbyte

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius

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Brachio,

If we keep this thread going long enough, we will get an answer. Someone out there knows what they are even if they are insignificant. "ENQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW":wacko:

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius

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Hi,

I have not time now, but I am going to return with an answer, and I am going to try to make photos to explain my comments.

Coco

----------------------
OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici

Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici
Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici
Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici
Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici
Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici
Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici

Un Greg...

Badges-IPFOTH.jpg.f4a8635cda47a3cc506743a8aabce700.jpg Badges-MOTM.jpg.461001e1a9db5dc29ca1c07a041a1a86.jpg

 

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Thanks Coco. I'm just trying to sort this one out and hopefully learn something along the way.

Hi,

I have not time now, but I am going to return with an answer, and I am going to try to make photos to explain my comments.

Coco

Edited by Sharkbyte

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius

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That's why I don't think that the presented fossils are sea urchin spines.

FIST REASON

Any regular sea urchin spine is formed by a "stalk" which becomes attached to the skeleton of the sea urchin. This tie meets on the base of the spine, it is fixed to a tuber on the skeleton.

Here are diverse species of sea urchin spines. You will see that every time, we see the basal part which is connected with the body of the sea urchin.

My pics are not good quality, but I had not a lot of time to do them.

Balanocidaris glandifera

balano10.jpg

Caenocidaris cucumifera

caenoc10.jpg

Paracidaris florigemma

paraci10.jpg

Pseudocidaris mammosa

pseudo10.jpg

pseudo11.jpg

Rhabdocidaris orbignyani

rhabdo10.jpg

Temnocidaris septrifera

temnoc10.jpg

Tylocidaris clavigera

tyloci10.jpg

SECOND REASON

As you can see, sea urchin spines are rarely smooth

THIRD REASON

The sea urchin spines are very often in calcite (CaCo3). As you can see it on this photo, when a calcite sea urchin spine break, it is so made as it is never cut perpendicularly in its main axis, but it is with an angle about by 45 °.

radiol10.jpg

I can also make a mistake. When I propose anything without being convinced of it, I put a "?" after my proposition. When I can explain what I know with photos (easier when we don't write English naturaly), I make it with pleasure.

I have a big collection of fossil sea urchins, and I have one even bigger collection of current sea urchins. I have some material to compare.

If you want to learn more on sea urchins, you can open a new post to put all your questions. I shall try to answer as far as my knowledge and time. ;)

Coco

----------------------
OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici

Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici
Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici
Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici
Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici
Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici
Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici

Un Greg...

Badges-IPFOTH.jpg.f4a8635cda47a3cc506743a8aabce700.jpg Badges-MOTM.jpg.461001e1a9db5dc29ca1c07a041a1a86.jpg

 

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My first impression was the same as Mike's. If you find small teeth in the Pungo River Formation then why not small coprolites? Do you have published information on what all is common from there? Are the teeth you find there marine?

Edited by BobWill
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My first impression was the same as Mike's. If you find small teeth in the Pungo River Formation then why not small coprolites? Do you have published information on what all is common from there? Are the teeth you find there marine?

The reason I doubt that these are coprolites is all the ones I've ever found are pointed on one end only. I would expect to find them pinched on both ends at least occasionally if they were coprolites. Yes, this is an open marine environment.

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Anytime one finds many similar shapes then, of course, they represent

something that probably has been identified. However, we have yet to

find the references.

post-6417-0-96942000-1318513829_thumb.jpg

What I find interesting is the common "broken flat ends" on most of these

specimens. To me that would rule out coprolite.

Question for those familiar with the area and time period.

Are there any teeth that might be a candidate?

Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)
MAPS Fossil Show

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Thanks for the pictures Coco and they are excellent.

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius

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  • 2 years later...

Came across this post trying to identify this find from Lee creek matrix. :)post-8801-0-68856300-1396789898_thumb.jpg

Did anyone ever determine what these are or do any new members know?

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I have read old NC Fossil club newsletters recently and these have been identified as pteropod endocasts.

  • I found this Informative 1
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I have read old NC Fossil club newsletters recently and these have been identified as pteropod endocasts.

Thank you!!! :)

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