Kosmoceras Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Since I have been finding more fossils recently, I have been starting to get some preparation equipment. Air tools, although being amazing, are a bit too expensive for me right now. So, I am thinking of getting an electronic etcher. But I have some questions. Does the diamond tipped pin go up and down, or does it turn? Does the movement break or leave big scratches if coming into contact with fossils? What type of fossils can you prepare with them? Are they good? Thanks, Best wishes, Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I recommend the Sears engraver for lite prep work. It is a recipricating device, rather then vibrating, making it more like a mini jackhammer. You can take tungsten drill bits and grind them to the shape you want and attach them to the end. It works very well for even very hard stone. Brent Ashcraft ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Brent is correct, they don't rotate, but the very rapid back and forth motion has the same feel as a vibrator. The tip that comes with them works fine on most rock, mine has lasted for years on limestone. The drawbacks are the noise and the finger fatigue you'll feel if you use it for too long at a time. Any tool that removes matrix can damage a fossil if it comes in direct contact with enough force and for an engraver that's any force at all. The trick is to aim the tip away from the fossil as much as possible, then when you must take off that last bit of rock, hold the tool back firmly from the fossil, with no downward pressure and let the tapping motion of the tip break off very small chunks. It will usually seperate at the juncture of matrix and fossil. You might collect broken or damaged partial fossils to practice on and remember that some rock is much softer than other types. Edited January 17, 2012 by BobWill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The upside that I forgot to mention, is that the Sears engraver is about $20. A very good buy in my opinion. Some of the engravers are not recipricating, but do vibrate, and don't work as well, so buyer beware. Brent Ashcraft ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) The upside that I forgot to mention, is that the Sears engraver is about $20. A very good buy in my opinion. Some of the engravers are not recipricating, but do vibrate, and don't work as well, so buyer beware. Brent Ashcraft Thanks for bringing up the distinction. I was not aware of this. Have you used the vibrating kind for comparison? If so, is the Sears model any easier on the fingers or is the main difference in how well it removes material? Also do you know if the Dremel model 290 is vibrating or recipricating? It's also $20 and I intend to replace it since the Hi-Low switch quit working so if the same money buys a better tool I'll be switching. Bob P.S. I looked up Dremel tools online and found them available on Sears web site. The model 290 is there for $20 but it doesn't say if it is recipricating or not. Then I looked at Craftsman engravers and the model 61050 look exactly the same but for $24 and also doesn't say which kind. They have several models of each brand, one for $62 but they all seem to have the same rating of 7200 strokes per minute which suggests reciprication since strokes would be a back and forth motion. Edited January 18, 2012 by BobWill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The dremel 290 is vibrating but has a variable speed control on it, for me I pretty much always used it on high on 18 inch layer green river fish for years before getting my air scribes. The dremel is pretty useless for most of the trilobite prepping that I like to do. Also they can cause damage to your fingers with prolonged use. Unfortunately in my opinion they don't come any where close to the results you get with an air scribe with a good carbide point. But then again $20 to $40 dollars versus 10 to 20 times that amount to get started with a real air scribe. If you have a source of compressed air you can also look at the rotating dental style high speed hand pieces. I have a few of these but again not as good as air scribes even though they can cost about the same to get set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) The dremel 290 is vibrating but has a variable speed control on it, for me I pretty much always used it on high on 18 inch layer green river fish for years before getting my air scribes. The dremel is pretty useless for most of the trilobite prepping that I like to do. Also they can cause damage to your fingers with prolonged use. Unfortunately in my opinion they don't come any where close to the results you get with an air scribe with a good carbide point. But then again $20 to $40 dollars versus 10 to 20 times that amount to get started with a real air scribe. If you have a source of compressed air you can also look at the rotating dental style high speed hand pieces. I have a few of these but again not as good as air scribes even though they can cost about the same to get set up. Do you know what brand or model is reciprocating? I assume the vibrating kind works with a spinning unbalanced weight and the reciprocating kind has a motor and cam arrangement but that's just a guess. P.S. Once again I've asked a question before looking it up for myself. It seems that by definition reciprocation is just back and forth motion with nothing in the definition about how it's achieved so that an engraver with a vibrating mechanism could be said to reciprocate unless there is some standard mechanical jargon that makes a distinction. If so, I was unable to find a reference. Of course in an engine the back and forth motion is converted to rotory with a cam but I'm getting off subject now The simple answer to the original question seems to be to use an inexpensive engraver in a limited way until you can afford better equipment. Edited January 18, 2012 by BobWill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xonenine Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) this may be a good tool for using w the acid, as I wouldn't need to get that close to the fossil, the goal would be to minimize dissolving matrix, I will pick one up I think, if I can stand going to the galleria.(Sears) Edited January 18, 2012 by xonenine "Your serpent of Egypt is bred now of your mud by the operation of your sun; so is your crocodile." Lepidus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If anyone figures out the answer to Bob's inquiry, and which makes/models work the best (other than the expensive ones that we should be using), I hope they will update this thread with that info.. one of these days I'm sure I'll be wanting to do basic prep myself sand I'm not a rich man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I have the dremel and have another black one that was really cheap and only has an on off and has no brand name on it. I got it perhaps 5 years ago at Wal Mart. Both of these are vibrating. The no name one makes your fingers feel really wonky after about 10 minutes of use, the Dremel is not quite as bad. Definately the dremel over this no name made in china one.The no name one is also much louder than the dremel. I have never come across one that works by reciprication. No question these do work. However, the points tend to be too bulky. Try to find one that you can remove the point so that you can replace with a thinner piece of carbide. The walmart one I have has a point that you cannot replace. The dremel is removable with a small set screw but does not really have a chuck, just a hole and the set screw. I put a smaller piece of carbide rod in mine and replaced the set screw with a longer one so that I could get a finer point and a chisel type point. Again I really never use these any more because the ARO airscribe can do in seconds what would take minutes with the dremel and the ARO is far more precise. These worked far better on my 18 inch layer green river fish than they do for the shales and limestones I find in Southwestern Ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The engraver I use is a Craftsman 61050, it has a replacable tip and adjustable rate of reciprication. It is not near as good as a pneumatic or a chicago electric, but for the genreal hobbyist, it is hard to beat for $24. Brent Ashcraft ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) One thing for a noobie to remember: The more powerful the tool, the high the potential for fossil damage. It's good to start with the cheaper, slower tools. This will get your eye-hand coordination perfect, and get you ready for the reality of the fossil eating potential of the more powerful tools. And, honestly, sometimes taking the time to patiently use hand tools works best on some specimens! The stories I could tell of the fossils that once were.... Edited January 18, 2012 by Boneman007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xonenine Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) i bought the Craftsman 61050, the replaceable tip sounded terrific, and there is indeed a depth setting adjustment, with positive indents that click firmly in place.Price still 24. having had my last two rotary tools forever (1 Dremel, 1 Craftsman), all the tips I have fit the new engraver.I chose a diamond tip for extended function, as recommended by Sears in the instructions. The only drawback was, as has been stated, the provided tip is very short.Ideal for engraving, I set it aside for that, and chose one three times as long.I will use blunt carbide tips primarily tho' BobWill has already said the most important things - I did not push on the tool at all, and it is then great for excess matrix removal, keeping in mind the specimen and your hand are going to experience a good deal of vibration.When the tool is working ideally, there is a hairline crack you can see as you work your way along the fossil, the division between the matrix and the fossil is plain to see. It is those times when that hairline isn't there that it's time to pull this tool away, and do something else, or find another angle of approach, it is not the right tool to "clean" a fossil, any touching is undesired... if you know what you want from this tool, it will do small tasks.It is very loud, I would hate to hear the louder ones... Edited January 19, 2012 by xonenine "Your serpent of Egypt is bred now of your mud by the operation of your sun; so is your crocodile." Lepidus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Wow, so many replies, I did not expect this many. Thank you all (and people who had their say in the chat) very much for the help. I do think they are a very good tool, and I might purchase one sometime this year, but for now I think that I will stick to the small hand etchers and blades. Right now, I do not have many fossils in need of preparation with involves great amounts of matrix taken off, and I really don't have much space right now for too many tools. Thank you so much for the help! Best wishes, Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have used a cheap dremel many times.It requires a steady hand and a delicate touch. Here are some of the results . Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Those fossils are very nice! Did you find all of the fossils yourself? Or are some bought and then prepped by you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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