Pachypleurosauroidea Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Hi all, I was at a fossil show last weekend, and I acquired a beautiful unhatched Oviraptor egg. I know it's not likely, but I would like to find out if there are fossilized embryonic remains inside. So, my question is, how do you get someone to scan your dino egg? I know that medical scans are very expensive, but since it costs next to nothing to actually run the scanner, is there anyway to convince a technician to run an egg through for you for an extremely low cost? Also, what other types of scanners will work on eggs? If X-rays would do it I'll just take it to my local vet, but I doubt that would be penetrating enough. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgrilusHunter Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 X-rays will give you a two dimensional image and if they work will let you know if there are denser 'bones' within the egg. Much will depend on the size of the egg and the density of the matrix. As for ct-scanning unless you partner with a researcher at a major museum or university its unlikely any place will scan the fossil for free. There is a nice facility at the University of Texas at Austin (http://www.ctlab.geo.utexas.edu/) that definitely has scanners powerful enough to view into the egg. The service there is not cheap though. Be warned, many museums and universities will now only spend money on, or describe, specimens if you are willing to talk donation. These are just my experiences with ct-scanning in so far, other members here may be able to help you out more. I wish you the best of luck, ct-scanning is amazingly fun when it works out. Please post images here it you have success! "They ... savoured the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant than ordinary people, who were only ignorant of ordinary things." -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordpiney Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 you have to date a woman who works in the cat scan room at your local hospital! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) You need an industrial strength cat scan machine. They have one here at UT. But I know one other person who looked into this. Here is what he told me: It only works if there is substantial difference between the density of the tiny bones and the surrounding matrix. Most eggs scan as a solid mass. Also, even if there are tiny bones inside it would take dozens of scans to put the image into perspective. You need the associated software to take the scans and create a 3D image. Any single plane image may not give you much at all. The bones, if there, are likely all piled up at one end and disarticulated. But if you can find a lab to do it let us all know what comes out! Edited March 31, 2012 by erose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgrilusHunter Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 You need the associated software to take the scans and create a 3D image. Associated software to take the scans (I like working with DICOM stacks, but any image stack will work) and create a 3d image. Also its free http://fiji.sc/wiki/index.php/Fiji SPIERS is good too and also free. http://spiers-software.org/contact.htm "They ... savoured the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant than ordinary people, who were only ignorant of ordinary things." -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgrilusHunter Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 It only works if there is substantial difference between the density of the tiny bones and the surrounding matrix. A standard x-ray will show this though I doubt the x-ray machine at your local vet is powerful enough to penetrate the matrix, especially if it is iron based. That said, in many bigger cities there are industrial x-ray services that have machines powerful enough to penetrate steel plate. You're just going to have to do your homework on what is available in your area and then start asking around. "They ... savoured the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant than ordinary people, who were only ignorant of ordinary things." -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 We have had some decent results using local hospital scanners to scan concretions containing tooth whorls. I also had one scanned at the facility at UT Austin, and while the UT Austin scan was a little cleaner it was not drastically better, given the density of the concretions. And this was on a concretion about the size of a basketball. Also the scan from UT Austin was much, much more expensive than the one we got from the hospital(free!). We also imaged a concretion at a local vet office, the X-ray machine there had plenty of juice to punch through a concretion(also free). My recommendation would be try a vet first, it will at least show you if anything is inside. If it is, you may seek out a researcher working on Oviraptor and see if they would be interested in the scan, they have grants for these things or like us have a good relationship with the local hospital. The good thing about finding a researcher is that they get a good intact specimen to analyse and publish and you would essentially get the scan for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pachypleurosauroidea Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Thanks for the great info everyone! (Well, almost everyone. You know who I mean. ) I'll try to take it down to my local vet sometime this week. I'll let you guys know if I find anything interesting. If the vet X-ray machine doesn't work, I'll take it to a nearby "horse surgery center" and see if they have something that'll get through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgrilusHunter Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Hi Pachypeurosauroidea, any chance we could see a picture of the egg? I've always wanted a dinosaur egg :greenwnvy: . "They ... savoured the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant than ordinary people, who were only ignorant of ordinary things." -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pachypleurosauroidea Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Sure. I've got some good pics of it, I just haven't have ad time lately to upload them from my camera. I'll post them as soon as I do. I suspect you will be quite :greenwnvy: as it is one of the best single egg specimens I have ever seen, including pictures on the internet and museum displays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I disagree with what some of the earlier posts said here. Yes, CT scanning is very expensive, but if you show up at the local hopsital with egg in hand and ask nicely if they could run it through their machine, most radiology techs would be thrilled to look inside your egg. I've done this successfully in a few different hospitals. But I will admit the first time I did it I drove 800 miles to do it with a friend of mine who is a CT tech. Also the vet x-ray machine should be able to see in there, too. But in only two dimensions. Have the techs turn their machine up high. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pachypleurosauroidea Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Here are some of the best pictures of the egg. The gash in the shell is apparently where the egg was stepped on by another dinosaur, seemingly puncturing the shell with a claw, hence the long, narrow shape. To me this is the coolest feature; I prefer it over perfect uniform shell. There is an interesting spot on one side where the shell fossilized in a different mineral, resulting in a brown patch. The pic of the end with the missing shell is the ONLY place on the ENTIRE EGG where shell is actually missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The shell is beautiful What are the dimensions of this specimen? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pachypleurosauroidea Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 The shell is beautiful What are the dimensions of this specimen? It's just short of 7 inches in length. The pictures don't do it justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Nice! Very Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pachypleurosauroidea Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Hi again everyone! I just thought I'd update this thread, since I did get the egg x-rayed. I took it with me when I went to get some back x-rays, and when I mentioned that I had it and was looking to get it scanned, the x-ray techs were thrilled to run it through their machine. Unfortunately, even though they cranked it up to full power, we weren't able to tell if there was anything inside; maybe the machine wasn't powerful enough, or maybe there isn't anything in the first place. I'll let you guys know if I have any luck getting it CT scanned. I tried uploading pictures of the x-rays, but whenever I chose the file and hit "Attach this file," it said "Error No file was selected for upload." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I like that you brought it with you for X-ray Day. Now go for it... just walk into the CT room and ask them to CT scan during a spare moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead9 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 My wife is a vet and we have x-rayed many eggs and concretions that have shown nothing, many of which have later proved to have fossils inside. I am not aware of anyone who has actually found a dinosaur skeleton inside an egg by either x-ray or catscan. My research has indicated that only a very high powered x-ray machine, such as those used by the miltiary, would actually reliably show bones inside an egg. Could be wrong, but that's my experience. Still Life Fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts