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Hello all, I’ve had this tyrannosaur tooth for a little while now, but haven’t been able to narrow down a species. I’m curious if it is possible to ID it any further. Would love to learn more. It was found in the Judith River Formation (Hill County, MT), and is ~13.5mm. Thank you all for your help in advance!
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From the album: Dinosaur Teeth
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From the album: Dinosaur Teeth
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From the album: Dinosaur Teeth
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The two most prominent hypothesizes on the direct evolutionary origin of perhaps the most famous Theropod Dinosaur from the fossil record, Tyrannosaurus Rex (Tyrannosauridae, Late Cretaceous (68-66 Million Years ago)) are what I call the Laramidia and Asian Origins. The Laramidia origin (named after the region of the Western North America which was a separate Continent during most of the Late Cretaceous and home to a vast amount of dinosaurs including Tyrannosaurus rex) hypothesizes that Tyrannosaurus rex is the direct descendent of and evolved from slightly older North American Tyrannosaurids like Daspletosaurus (Tyrannosauridae, Late Cretaceous (79.5-74 Million Years ago)). Warshaw, Elías & Fowler, Denver. (2022). A transitional species of Daspletosaurus Russell, 1970 from the Judith River Formation of eastern Montana. PeerJ. 10. e14461. 10.7717/peerj.14461. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/365746599_A_transitional_species_of_Daspletosaurus_Russell_1970_from_the_Judith_River_Formation_of_eastern_Montana The Asian origin hypothesizes that Tyrannosaurus’s direct ancestor was a Tyrannosaurid from Asia. This supported by how closely related the Asian Tyrannosaurid Tarbosaurus (Tyrannosauridae, Late Cretaceous (70 Million Years ago)). This hypothesis further elaborates that a that the Asian Tyrannosaurids arrived in Western North America via a land bridge between what is now Eastern Russia and Alaska around 73-72 Million Years ago. On arrival, theses Asian Tyrannosaurids outcompeted and caused the extinction of most of the Native Tyrannosaur species of Laramidia (including Albertosaurus (Tyrannosaurid, Late Cretaceous (71-68 Million Years ago)), creating conditions allowing for the emergence of the genus Tyrannosaurus. Brusatte, Stephen & Carr, Thomas. (2016). The phylogeny and evolutionary history of tyrannosauroid dinosaurs. Scientific Reports. 6. 20252. 10.1038/srep20252. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep20252 Takasaki R, Fiorillo AR, Tykoski RS, Kobayashi Y (2020) Re-examination of the cranial osteology of the Arctic Alaskan hadrosaurine with implications for its taxonomic status. PLoS ONE 15(5): e0232410. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0232410 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0232410 Both hypotheses have points that are supported by the fossil record, but still don’t fill all the gaps in answering the question of the direct origin of the genus Tyrannosaurus. There is however another hypothesis I have pondered over for at least the past few months which could fill in some (if not all) the gaps to this question. It is the Hybrid Speciation Origin hypothesis. The Hybrid Speciation Origin hypothesis basically states that after a land bridge formed between Eurasia and Laramidia during the Late Campanian stage of the Cretaceous (73-72 Million Years ago) and the Asian Tyrannosaurids arrived in Laramidia, certain individuals of a Asian Tyrannosaurid genus breed with a species of a genus of Native Laramidia Tyrannosaurid (likely a direct descendent of Daspletosaurus). Enough of these inter-genus breeding events occurred that a new Tyrannosaurid genus distinct from its parent species (and genuses) emerged around 68 Million Years ago, Tyrannosaurus. I will admit this would be extremely difficult to prove, but I do believe it could be a valid hypothesis. It corroborates the many similarities in skeletal structure Tyrannosaurus shares (and how closely related it is phylogenetically) with the Asian Tyrannosaurid Tarbosaurus and the skeletal structure similarities and general body shape it shares with Daspletosaurus. Image Credit: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep20252 Brusatte, Stephen & Carr, Thomas. (2016). The phylogeny and evolutionary history of tyrannosauroid dinosaurs. Scientific Reports. 6. 20252. 10.1038/srep20252. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep20252 Warshaw, Elías & Fowler, Denver. (2022). A transitional species of Daspletosaurus Russell, 1970 from the Judith River Formation of eastern Montana. PeerJ. 10. e14461. 10.7717/peerj.14461. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/365746599_A_transitional_species_of_Daspletosaurus_Russell_1970_from_the_Judith_River_Formation_of_eastern_Montana Stein, Walter W.; Triebold, Michael (2013). "Preliminary Analysis of a Sub-adult Tyrannosaurid Skeleton from the Judith River Formation of Petroleum County, Montana". In J. Michael Parrish; Ralph E. Molnar; Philip J. Currie; Eva B. Koppelhus (eds.). Tyrannosaurid Paleobiology. Bloomington: Indiana University Press. pp. 55–77. Currie, P.J. (2003). Cranial anatomy of tyrannosaurid dinosaurs from the Late Cretaceous of Alberta, Canada. Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 48 (2): pp. 191–226. https://www.app.pan.pl/archive/published/app48/app48-191.pdf I am interested in how the tyrannosaurid species Nanuqusaurus (Tyrannosaurid, Late Cretaceous (70-68 (likely also to 66) Million years ago), the Daspletosaur Tyrannosaurid specimen RMDRC 2002.MT-001 “Sir William”, and the Tyrannosaurid specimen CM 9401 could factor into the validity of the hybrid speciation hypothesis. I hold no illusions in thinking this hypothesis is not going to be controversial. But I do think it could be semi plausible. What do you guys think?
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Is this a Two Medicine juvenile tyrannosaurid or Richardoestesia tooth?
-Andy- posted a topic in Fossil ID
Hello, this tooth has baffled me for years. I can't tell if it is a juvenile tyrannosaurid dentary tooth or a cf. Richardoestesia gilmorei tooth Its locality info is Montana, Two Medicine Formation The tooth has a serration density of 19/5mm on the distal mid-line. Unfortunately the mesial carina is worn down so that crucial data is missing The CH is 11.5 mm, CBW is 7 mm and CBL is 4.5 mm As far as I am aware, juvenile tyrannosaurid (with the exception of T. rex) have slender teeth while as this tooth is somewhat robust. Meanwhile, Richardoestesia gilmorei is somewhat of a wastebasket ID for many teeth(likely unrelated species), so this teeth should fall into the range of size and morphology for one May I have your thoughts on this tooth?z.thumb.jpg.60cf93b5817ace20aa91fb5176938645.jpg)
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Hello all, I need some help ID'ing these two tyrannosaur teeth from the Two Medicine Formation in Montana. Does anyone know how to tell the difference between Gorgosaurus and Daspletosaurus teeth based on this size? Thanks for any help.
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I’m not sure if this has already been shared or not but a recent paper discussing the braincases of two Daspletosaurus specimens show more variation then previously thought. from the paper: “For sheer complexity, braincases are generally considered anatomically conservative. However, recent research on the braincases of tyrannosaurids have revealed extensive morphological variations. This line of inquiry has its root in Dale Russell’s review of tyrannosaurids in which he established Daspletosaurus torosus — a large tyrannosaurine from the Campanian of southern Alberta. In the wake of systematic revisions to tyrannosaurines previously assigned to Daspletosaurus, one potentially distinct species remains undescribed. This paper describes and compares a braincase referable to this species with that of the holotype for Daspletosaurus torosus using computerized-tomography-based reconstructions. The two braincases have numerous differences externally and internally. The specimen of Daspletosaurus sp. has a bottlenecked olfactory tract, short and vertical lagena, and a developed ascending column of the anterior tympanic recess. The holotype of Daspletosaurus torosus has many unusual traits, including an anteriorly positioned trochlear root, elongate common carotid canal, distinct chamber of the basisphenoid recess, asymmetry in the internal basipterygoid aperture, and laterally reduced but medially expanded subcondylar recess. This comparison also identified characters that potentially unite the two species of Daspletosaurus, including deep midbrain flexures in the endocasts. However, many character variations in the braincases are known in other tyrannosaurids to correlate with body size and maturity, or represent individual variations. Therefore, taxonomic and phylogenetic signals can be isolated from background variations in a more comprehensive approach by using additional specimens. New information on the two braincases of Daspletosaurus is consistent with the emerging view of tyrannosaurid braincases as highly variable, ontogenetically dynamic character complexes.” the paper: https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/10.1139/cjes-2020-0185
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Montana State Museum of the Rockies - July 2021
AlexSciChannel posted a topic in A Trip to the Museum
So over the past few days I was visiting Bozeman from Raleigh North Carolina as I was visiting the MSU campus because I've been accepted to start as a freshman in autumn 2021. And I hope you know what I am trying to major in. I mean you know what forum we're on I don't have to spell it out. Anyway, in that time I managed to spend all day visiting the Museum of the Rockies which is considered one of the Mecca halls for paleontology. Our crazy old boi Jack used to be Prof and curator there before... well you know. My home museum, the NC Museum of Natural Sciences are taxonomic lumpers when it comes to paleontology but they are passive lumpers. They are nothing compared to what the MOR has going on holy snarge I was surprised. I like going to different museums like this because it shows different perspectives based on findings that vary by institution. While I don't agree with a lot of it, it's healthy to expose oneself to different ideas and conclusions. Also I just couldn't help but feel giddy in the midst of all these dinosaurs. I'll update this post with pictures in a few moments... I will also post what the info cards on the exhibits state about each specimen. Here is Big Mike. A metal replica of MOR 555 commonly known as the Wankel although now more known as the Nation's T. rex since the og skeleton's move to the Smithsonian. I spent at least 30 minutes admiring the sculpt of this beautiful beast alone. Our first is a tibia of a Hadrosaur indet. found in 80 mya rock in Chotaeu, Montana so likely the Two Medicine Formation however this is unique because this is from it's lower strata which we don't know much about that's why it isn't identified as Maiasaura, as that dinosaur lived later. Here are some nice trace fossils and geology stuff, Here's the Precambrian globe Here's how sediments move through time. There's dioramas too. Starting with the Cambrian of course with Anomalocaris and working our way up. Here we're getting some Ordivician and Silurian description, Devonian like creatures. Although Coelocanths first evolved 400 mya they live all the way up to the present day. Stethocanthus below Next we start going in depth into the dinosaurs more updates coming stay tuned...
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Daspletosaurus tooth?
Josesaurus rex posted a topic in Is It Real? How to Recognize Fossil Fabrications
Hello again. I saw this supposedly Daspletosaurus tooth, said to be from the Two Medicine Formation, Montana. It measures approximately 1.5 inches. If you could help me, I would appreciate it. Thanks
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Dinosaur tooth. Gorgosaur? Nanotyrannus? T-rex?
Josesaurus rex posted a topic in Is It Real? How to Recognize Fossil Fabrications
Hello again. I saw this tooth on the internet, I don't know what dinosaur it could be from. In the description of the publication it does not say anything, only that it is from the theropod and from the United States. I suspect it is from a tyrannosaurid, but which one? I don't know. Gorgosaurus? or T rex? There is no further information on the origin or training where it was obtained. What do you think it could be? I know that with so little data not much can be done, but I would like to know the opinions or suggestions that you have on this matter anyway, so that I can have a better idea and decide whether to buy it or not.
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Daspletosaurus tooth (?)
TheItalianPaleo posted a topic in Is It Real? How to Recognize Fossil Fabrications
Hi everyone, So I came across a tooth that says this tooth comes from a carnivore (Gorgosaur/Daspletosaur), is 3.81 cm in length. The seller is a Daspletosaurus, but you know, before buying anything I have to ask your opinion. It was found in the Two Medicine Formation. There was a debate as to whether it was either a Gorgosaurus or a Daspletosaurus. So the questions are: Is it a Daspletosaurus or a Gorgosaurus? In what condition it is?
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ID help: Judith River Formation Tyrannosaur tooth identification
Praefectus posted a topic in Fossil ID
Hello. I was wondering if anyone could help me identify this tyrannosaur tooth I recently added to my collection. It is said to be from the Judith River formation in North-Central Montana. Unfortunately, I don't have the county it came from. The tooth has the following measurements. Thanks for your help. CH = 40 mm CWB = 10 mm CBL = 16 mm MC = 18 denticles/5 mm DC = 14 denticles/5 mm DSDI = 1.29
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I recently just finished a drawing that took me a few weeks of the Daspletosaurus specimen FMNH PR308 and just wanted to share it.
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I bought this tyrannosaur tooth a while back and it says it’s a albertosaurus, gorgosaurus, or daspletosaurus. Is there anyway to narrow it down any further? It says it was found in the Judith river formation of eastern Montana and it measures just over an inch. Any and all help is appreciated.
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My son found a long skinny tyrannosaur tooth on South Saskatchewan River, West of Medicine Hat (oldman formation? Formost FM? DPP?) We've found all sorts of tyrannosaur teeth - short fat ones, short wide narrow ones, long fat ones, long narrow ones (Richadoestia), and all sorts of variations of curves or straight Species, age, and tooth position may all be factors. I'm just wondering if anyone has more info? This tooth is relatively narrow and thin for its length. I can post other examples of teeth found in the same area that are quite different from one another. I believe these may be examples of gorgosaurus or daspletosaurus as they were found in the DPP formation
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Hi just got these two fossils today! And was wondering did I get it right on saying this Daspletosaurus tooth was a mesial tooth? Also i called it a Daspletosaurus because it’s DSDI was over 1.2 and I think it’s a mesial tooth. In the photo it’s beside my smaller Judith River Tyrannosaur indet tooth. Also is it possible to tell what this dinosaur finger bone is? Thank you! dinosaur finger bone
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Found in over a dozen pieces. Had repaired after I glued it back together.
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Two Daspletosaurus species present in the Judith River Formation?
dinosaur man posted a topic in Questions & Answers
Hi I heard there are two Judith River Formation Daspletosaur species, an earlier one and older, is this true? Because the Daspletosaurus specimen Sir William being an older species from 79 to 77.5 mya and possibly D.torosus, D.honeri or another new species being the younger Daspletosaur species from 77.5 to 75 mya. Or is it just one Daspletosaurus in the Formation? -
I just got this and it will be arriving soon, It will be my largest dinosaur tooth yet once It comes. It’s a Tyrannosaur indet for now and it’s from the Judith River Formation. Just wanted to share this. I wanted to share more information compared to my other topic.
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Hi I decided to make a post about my main research project right now on Campanian Tyrannosaurs specifically Daspletosaurus. Today I have found something to tell teeth from the Judith River Formation and Dinosaur Park Formation. This could also do with the Tyrannosaurs prey or locality. I found out that Judith River Formation Tyrannosaur teeth serrations are more circular and more round compared to the same time Dinosaur Park Formation Tyrannosaur teeth serrations. The Dinosaur Park Formation Tyrannosaur teeth serrations are more longer skinner and more chiseled like but not like other Tyrannosaur teeth from other areas like T. rex’s teeth serrations. Certain Tyrannosaurs in different areas and times would/could of had unique serration morphology probably dew to there prey. I did this on multiple teeth from the Judith River Formation and Dinosaur Park Formation to strengthen my hypothesis. Any opinions on this topic would be great. I will post more on my research here on this and other topics on the Tyrannosaur/Daspletosaurus. I have been doing research on this Daspletosaurus from the Dinosaur Park Formation and it’s close relatives because it was the first dinosaur fossil I’ve ever found. I’ve liked fossils and dinosaurs since I was 2 but in 2018 I went to Alberta and found my first dinosaur fossil which was a fossil from the Dinosaur Park Formation Daspletosaurus sp. Thats why I have been researching on this topic. The serrations I found on Dinosaur Park Formation Tyrannosaur teeth. The serrations I found on Judith River Formation Tyrannosaur teeth.
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Hi I have a question, I went back since I had some time and re measured my Tyrannosaur tooth denticles. But there both the same size, the Mesial and Distal are both 6. And the DSDI is 1, what would this mean? Thank you!! @Omnomosaurus, @Troodon
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Hi I decided to make this since the new Tyrannosaur from Alberta’s Foremost Formation, Thanatotheristes deerootorum has just been named and described. Enjoy!! Tyrannosaur bearing Formations in Canada: Formations in Alberta but most of the Formations on my list are I Alberta anyway. Horseshoe Canyon Formation 74-68 million years ago, Alberta: Albertosaurus sarcophagus, possibly Daspletosaurus sp. but no compelling evidence so far. Oldman Formation 78.2-77 million years ago, Alberta: Daspletosaurus torosus, Gorgosaurus sp. Foremost Formation 80.5-78.2 million years ago, Alberta: Thanatotheristes deerootorum, possibly Gorgosaurus sp. Milk River Formation 84.5-83.4 million years ago, Alberta: Tyrannosaur. indet could be a species of Thanatotheristes, possibly Gorgosaurus sp. Scollard Formation 68-66 million years ago, Alberta: T. rex, possibly Nanotyrannus Formations in British Columbia: Wapiti Formation 76.8-70 million years ago, Alberta, British Columbia: Unknown Albertosaurinae either Gorgosaurus or Albertosaurus, possibly Daspletosaurus sp. Tumbler Ridge 135-74 million years ago, British Columbia: Tyrannosaur. indet Formations in Saskatchewan and Manitoba: Dinosaur Park Formation 77-75.5 million years ago, Alberta, Saskatchewan: Daspletosaurus sp., Gorgosaurus libratus Frenchmen Formation, 68-66 million years ago, Saskatchewan: T. rex, possibly Nanotyrannus Bearpaw Formation 75-72 million years ago, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba: Daspletosaurus sp. one specimen from Daspletosaurus sp. that drowned. For now these are all the Tyrannosaurs known from Canada. No Eastern Tyrannosaurs in Canada yet either but maybe someday. I will also update this and add as more information comes available.
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Well it was about time but we have a new Tyrannosaurid from the Foremost Formation of Alberta called Thanatotheristes degrootorum. Its part of a new clad called Daspletosaurini which comprises other Daspletosaurus spp. The foremost is a mid Campanian deposit. Its the first described Tyrannosaurid from this deposit. This represents the earliest stratigraphic occurrence of diagnostic tyrannosaurid material from Canada. Its a paywalled paper https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195667119303611 From Wiki
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TEST DATA NEEDED - Quantitative Method for Identifying Campanian Age Tyrannosaurids of North America
dinosaur man posted a topic in Questions & Answers
This experiment is by @Troodon, @Omnomosaurus and me @dinosaur man. Thank you for participating!!- 9 replies
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