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  1. pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon

    Marine reptile teeth from Nancy

    Hi everyone, I got offered this pair of marine reptile teeth as those of ichthyosaurs, but am having a hard time making my mind up about their identification. I'd therefore like to ask for your opinions. The teeth were found during works around Nancy back in 2004, and, based on other ichthyosaur finds from the region, likely dates the Toarcian stage of the Early Jurassic (though, from what I can tell, Oxfordian marine deposits are also accessible in the area). This makes them roughly the same age as material from the Posidonia Shale/Holzmaden and Whitby, but slightly younger than that of the Lyme Bay area. The above photograph is the only one I have, with the seller being on fieldwork and unable to provide much further information for the next couple of weeks. Although we can safely eliminate marine crocodile as contenders for the original owners of these teeth, and I think they are too big to have belonged to fish, I'm undecided on whether these are just highly worn ichthyosaur teeth or plesiosaur teeth. There's something to be said for both. The tall, slender shape of the teeth and their slight curvature, for instance, would seem to fit plesiosaurian teeth, as would, most significantly, the round root of the bigger tooth. In that case, however, the smaller tooth does seem a bit stubby, and the traces of ornamentation along the midsection of the larger tooth surprisingly equidistantly spaced. Generally, the morphology of the smaller tooth to me suggests ichthyosaur rather than plesiosaur. But if that were the case, I'd expect either enamel folds on the crowns themselves, folds on the root, or both (even when ichthyosaur teeth have smooth enamel, I find they still have folds on their roots). I'd also expect the root to be more polygonal in shape, somewhere in the range of triangular to (rounded) square. This is not the case. Now there seems to be some ornamentation midway up the larger specimen which equidistant spacing correlates well with patterns of the folds found on ichthyosaur teeth, thus may indicate the tooth is ophthalmosaurid and therefore Oxfordian rather than Torcian in age. The below image I drew up makes the comparison: As you can see, the match is less then ideal, as the top part of the French tooth is completely devoid of enamel folds, whereas in an ophthalmosaurid tooth the plicidentine folds actually taper out until the enamel is clear. @belemniten, however, posted images of a couple of his ichthyosaur teeth from Holzmaden, one of which appears to show a similar pattern as visible in the middle of the French tooth under consideration here, including what appears to be a round root: However, when looking at other images of the same tooth, it turns out that the root does have folds, as you'd expect from ichthyosaur teeth: Similarly, the below tooth seems to have a superficially similar appearance to the French tooth for the hairline cracking of the enamel, and the fact that enamel appears to be missing from the crown immediately above the root proper (which, again, exhibits folds, however). Still, if the "smooth round root" on the French tooth would've been covered by enamel as well, this would make for a very tall tooth as far as ichthyosaurs go. As illustrated by the specimen below (source), though, ichthyosaur teeth do occasionally have round roots: Moreover, the folds on the root don't always run the full height of it (image source): Lastly, as the specimen below demonstrates (source), the entire root can look completely smooth, presumably from wear: As such, I'm wondering whether the French tooth specimen might not be a very worn ichthyosaur tooth, with its parts being composed as such: This doesn't particularly make too much sense to me either, as the part of the root with folds is rather long and has a very abrupt transition into the remainder of the root. In addition, it raises the question of how the tooth would've gotten so worn. Though I understand there are fluvially exposed sites around Nancy, could this have caused the wear we're seeing. Or would the wear rather be peridepositional? So, I guess I can summarize my questions as: Do these look like plesiosaur or ichthyosaur teeth? If plesiosaurian, what would the equidistant striations on the midsection of the tooth be? If ichthyosaurian, do these teeth look more ophthalmosaurid or pre-ophthalmosaur? How might the wear I think I'm seeing be explained? Thanks for the help! cc @paulgdls @PointyKnight @DE&i @Welsh Wizard @RuMert @FF7_Yuffie
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