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  1. Fossilcollector88

    Supposedly Spinosaur bones from Morocco

    Kem kem bones, supposedly Spinosaur Hello all, i recently got two bones that come from Morrocco, kem kem formation, suposedly belonging to a Spinosaur. They seem quite peculiar and could actually come from anything. Attached are some photo’s, does anyone have an idea what it could be?
  2. jikohr

    Extra Carina on a Spino tooth?

    Hi everyone! I was going through a batch of Spinos I got recently and this one stood out. It measures just over 4.5 cm and appears to have a second carina on one side. It reminds me of those really rare pathological therapod teeth I've seen with parallel sets of serrations except it's Spino so the serrations are.....not as prominent. So I figured it would be a good idea to ask for a second opinion before labeling it as that. What do you all think? Any insight is greatly appreciated as always!
  3. This is a fun project that I have been working on for the past few months. Fossilized dinosaur teeth from the Kem Kem beds in Morocco showcase a wide variety of colours and patterns, caused by the varying conditions under which they were fossilized. To me, these colours and patterns are rather beautiful. Therefore I decided to ask a colleague of mine, who is a professional photographer, to take pictures of my small collection of teeth, so I could use these pictures to create collages of the original owners of the teeth. Using this approach, I made images of theropods from five different families. The animals on the images inhabited what is now known as Morocco about 100 million years ago. Here they are. The white bar next to the teeth represents 1 cm. This one I based on the species Spinosaurus aegyptiacus. This one is based on Rugops primus. I was inspired by the patterns of the Gila monster. Based on Deltadromeus agilis, which might be a noasaurid. As no skull of this dinosaur has ever been found, I am not sure that these are actually teeth of Deltadromeus. The other side of the smaller tooth shows an interesting white pattern, caused by plant roots growing on the fossil. Based on Carcharodontosaurus saharicus. I am not certain that these teeth are dromaeosaurid, but they do have characteristics that indicate that they might be. I love the pattern on the smaller tooth, which made it pretty easy for me to create a feathered look. I went ahead and got cards printed with the collages on the front. On the back I have included the family names and the specific teeth I used for each collage, at full size! It was a fun and refreshing experience to try a completely different approach to making illustrations.
  4. Hi everyone! I have my eye on a Kem Kem spino claw and was hoping for a second opinion on the potential presence of shenanigans. The top looks great, but the bottom has a pretty clear difference in coloration between the tip area and the back. Although that doesn't seem to go beyond the bottom so it might just be a fluke in the mineralization or just differing levels of exposure. So what do you all think? Any insight is appreciated as always!
  5. The past few weeks at the Tucson Fossil I ran across a few fake Spinosaur claws but also was surprised how many good ones there were on the market. I also understand the issues with online claws so decided to put this topic out to help collectors gain a better understanding of them since they are very expensive. These are my opinions and welcome others since no one person as all the answers. There is no bullet proof approach you can take to insure you have a claw that is not totally fake or composited. There are some things you need to consider. - First try dealing with what I call preferred Moroccan merchants, those are typically found at big shows and a few have online or FB sites, ones that specialize in Moroccan material are the best. They typically know what to look for and can point out issues with claws. Makes life a bit harder to get one but you want a good claw don't you. This does not take you off the hook its still YOUR responsibility to know what you are buying. - Unless you are an expert never buy one from Auction site. If you see one that interest you see seek assistant from an expert, not a collector friend, or post it here on the forum we have lots of opinions here. - 2D photos are not always the best to see what is going on with a claw, I prefer handling one. Composited claws can be good and photos don't show you all the issues. - Good preservation and quality are key for making life easy in deciding if its a good claw or not. There is where it pays to focus on the better claws. Claws that are deformed, partial, compressed, beat up or have matrix on them are very difficult to insure you have a good one and especially hard for experts to positively say its good. It always best to save and wait to buy a higher end one. - As a general rule try avoid claws that have matrix glued on them or have seams with matrix. The matrix is there for only one reason to hid trouble. Matrix is a red flag, just tread carefully when looking at one of these. Ask yourself why risk it and buy a potentially problem claw, there are plenty out there that are clean. PRICE = Preservation (Quality) + Size - Repairs - Real claws are expensive, simple as that. So if you see inexpensive big claws there must be a reason unless its the deal of a century and they exist. Most of the claws I show are in the 1-2K range for 4-6 inches. Here are a few from the Tucson show to give you an understanding what real ones look like. Focus on shape, the articulation end, blood grooves and preservation. These two are clean no matrix, no compression may have been broken and reattached, reasonable preservation. Nice claws for any collection Higher Grade - Fatter, nice surface finish, good preservation, few if any repairs. Couple of more examples. Honest merchant shows, some repair and resto. Excellent high end claw around 7 inches very very expensive Fake Claws These two were laying in the box and the merchant said he just had them fabricated. They look pretty good to a novice both reasonable size and configuration. Probably copied from a good one. Red Flags : Check out the graining its does not follow the curve of the claw but is straight. Uniform Color and looks too clean. Finish is flat with no hit of sheen seen on bone. Super long ones are the most suspect, here are two in a box. Unusually long and thin, usually the dorsal curvature is not smooth to the tip has kinks, the preservation is odd, hard to see bone, lots of surface repairs. These may be composited, faked or combo? Who knows to risky to find out. Off an auction site - terrible fake easier to spot- 6.9 inch claw One of the hardest items to replicate is the blood groove that is on either side of the claw. The groove is the widest at the articulation end and slowly tapers to a point to form a channel at the tip that extends outward beyond the dorsal surface. Here is an example of a perfectly preserved one. Here is the tip of the claw from above and you can see the blood groove is just a channel in the claw. Another Characteristic on these claws is that when looked at from the top or bottom they are shaped like an isosceles triangle. Much bigger at the articulation end than the tip. Preservation may affect this but most should be tapered. Like most theropods, hand claws vary depending on digit so there will be variations depending on that and the number of different Spinosaurids that exist in Kem Kem. This is a big unknown and we believe these type of claws all belong to the Spinosaurid family. But here are a couple more you can check out the blood grooves, articulation and shape More Examples of Fake Hand Claws: Bottom side is not a smooth curve, blood groove changes size, surface finish is odd not bonelike Carved but with an very poorly shaped deep blood groove Carved in multiple sections and shape is off, front end should not be that curved Photo provided by Jim Kirkland Carved, Composited etc Badly carved claw The following are all carved, examine how poorly the blood grooves are made.
  6. Hi Everyone! I acquired this Kem Kem gem a few months ago. I'm pretty certain that it's a Spinosaurid Caudal, which would have been really cool by itself since it's one of the better ones I've seen, but what really sticks out (or in) is a very large unique looking hole on one side. The bone is about 9.6 cm long and hole by itself is roughly 3.5 x 2.7 cm wide and 1.3 cm deep. Damage on Kem Kem material isn't uncommon, but the bone surface flows into the hole as if it was made before fossilization. The big question I have (aside from a second opinion that I'm not just seeing something much cooler than what is there), is pre or post mortem and potential causes. I don't think it's a bite mark. While I have seen really big Spino teeth with that cross section there isn't any damage to the other side and I feel like a tooth that size would punch a hole straight through the bone rather than just leave a 1.3 cm deep hole. Same with potential injury from a large spike of some sort. I don't think it's cancer since there's no excess growth. The main thing that comes to my mind is a really nasty infection with a large abscess, potentially caused by a minor injury that got infected (Spinos loved swimming in some nasty swamps after all). But as with any claim like that it's pretty important to seek out a second opinion. So what do you all think? Any insight is appreciated as always!
  7. Hello everyone ! I have these two fossil vertebrae from the Kem Kem formation from Morocco (no exact location) and I can't identify them. Can someone help me please? They are very different from each other. The red vertebra n.1 has an oval shape and has mirrored holes on both sides, while above it has a larger some. I initially thought it was Hybodus or Onchopristis, but I'm not sure, it could be many other shark species. The white vertebra n.2 does not have any type of hole on the edge and is almost perfectly round, I believe it is a completely different species from the first. Thank you.
  8. trilobites_are_awesome

    spinosaurus or plesiosaur?

    I was wondering if these spinosaurus. teeth were actually plesiosaur teeth? I got them from a auction site labeled as spinosaurus teeth.
  9. Ericlin

    Pterosaur bone?

    Hello, I brought this small bone that was labeled at pterosaur. It’s about 2.6 inches by .27 inches by .15 inches. It was found in the Kem Kem beds and according to the seller, near similar bones and pterosaur teeth. If anyone could confirm that it’s a pterosaur bone that would be great! As always thanks a lot :).
  10. Opabinia Blues

    Kem Kem Bone Grab Bag

    Every year at the Denver fossil show it seems like I pick up some unidentified Kem Kem material. This is because for one it’s cheap, but also because it’s kinda fun to investigate this material. Here are eight pieces I picked up as a bulk set. I have some idea about identification on each of these but would love to hear other’s input. In the following pictures I have the top row being archosaur fossils and the bottom row being fish fossils. My guesses: 1. Caudal(?) vertebra centrum. Croc or theropod, but probably croc. 2. Croc dorsal vertebra 3. Croc centrum 4. Theropod pedal phalanx. Specifically, the distal-most phalanx of toe 1 (the “dew claw”). Narrowest ID I think I could guess we would be Ceratosauria indet., should probably be labeled as Theropoda indet. 5. Two fused fish vertebrae. Are these identifiable any more than this? 6. Gar or gar-like vertebra 7. Chondrichthyan fish vertebra. Maybe Onchoptistis numida? Can that determination even be made? 8. A gigantic ganoid scale. Any guesses just based on size? I’m unfamiliar with all the monster fish in this rock unit. Thanks :)
  11. Mioplosus_Lover24

    Polycotylid Plesiosaur Tooth From Kem Kem?

    I bought this tooth on impulse a few days ago. To me it looks like a fully rooted Plesiosaur tooth. It has all the characteristics of being from the Kem Kem Beds aswell. I've not seen any other rooted teeth to compare it to. So, did I score, or did I buy a crocodile tooth?
  12. Most everything you see sold on the commercial market as far as Sauropod teeth, from the Kem Kem of Morocco, is label Rebbachisaurus garasbae or Rebbachisaurus. They appear to be incorrectly identified based on the latest research. Feel free to add your teeth to show variations. What do we know of Sauropod teeth from this fauna? - very simple answer, very very little in fact less than we know of Theropod material which is very little to begin with. In the Kem Kem there is one described species a Diplodocoid, Rebbachisaurus garasbae and evidence of a large Titanosaurid. That evidence on the Titanosaurid is based only on a single caudal vertebra. The holotype that described Rebbachisaurus contained only one complete dorsal vertebra, parts of another vertebra, some neural spines, rib fragments, ischium, humerus and a few more fragmentary material but NO skull, NO teeth. Like many Theropod dinosaurs we have teeth but no skull to identify them against and label them to a family level. Why should we not do the same with sauropod teeth there is no difference. The other fact that I find interesting is Rebbachisaurus once thought to be a large bodied Sauropod has been redescribed to a smaller animal and the Titanoaurid from this fauna is a very large one. EDIT: The publication issued in 2018 sheds a new light on this topic. The information here is based on that publication https://peerj.com/articles/5925/ Rebbachisaurid indet Faceted small diameter, smooth surface This tooth is faceted all around the crown. Very round, small diameter This tooth includes a base with enamel on it - uncertain of placement Titanosaurid indet Large Teeth Two very crisp cutting edges and very rough texture in the enamel, no wear facet maybe sign its an unerupted tooth. Have not see the texture on any other tooth. Very pointed Crown - positional? No cutting edges This tooth shows wrinkles around the shaft. No its not a Spino no cutting edges Felt sorry or these two orphans just added them to the mix. Positional, no cutting edges More peg like, no cutting edges, not sure about this tooth - My guess its Rebbachisaurid
  13. A year ago I bought this spinosaurus vertebra from the Kem Kem Beds at a good price. I don't have doubt that the vertebra is real, I am concerned that there are some composite parts. If the vertebra were 100% original, would it be possible to know if it is from an adult or a juvenile? The size of the vertebra is 10cm long x 13cm tall.
  14. Hi everyone! I recently acquired a bunch of Kem Kem Beds Spinosaur teeth and this one stood out. At the base of the mesial carinae is a large flat spot. Ordinarily I would chalk that up to damage but there seems to still be some enamel on that spot which makes me think the tooth formed like that. My closest guess is it's impacted but I figured I'd post and ask for a second opinion since I haven't seen that before. Any insight is appreciated as always!
  15. BirdsAreDinosaurs

    Four Kem Kem theropod teeth

    Hi all. These are four theropod teeth from the Kem Kem beds that I am not sure about how to assign them. I was hoping you could have a look and let me know what you think. 1. A 3 cm long tooth, I think this one might be Carcharodontosaurid. 2. This one is 1.9 cm long. Distal serrations are slightly less dense than mesial ones. 3. A small one, 1.5 cm. Hard to measure, but mesial denticles appear to have a slightly higher density. 4. A 2 cm ugly one Thanks! Let me know if you need more info or pictures.
  16. Isolated theropod Teeth from the Kem Kem Basin continue to be a mystery. Plan on documenting all the different morphologies I have in my collection to see the variation that exists. Currently we cannot identify any one to a specific species or genus possibly family. I can provide discussion and aid in identification at some point. Just a note, different morphologies do not necessarily mean different species. There are lots of tooth variations in the dentition of a theropod, why its so difficult to nail down an ID even in the best of circumstances. Morph Type 1 Anterior Tooth (possibly Carcharodontosaurid) Distal margin is almost straight Mesial margin strongly recurved Mesial carina extends 3/4 crown height Denticles are oriented towards the tip Serration Density: Distal - 2/mm (More dense toward the base) Mesial - 1.7/mm (More dense toward the base) Morph Type 2 (possible Carcharodontosaurid) Anterior Tooth Distal margin is slightly concave Mesial margin strongly recurved Mesial Carina extends to the cervex Denticles are oriented toward the tip Interdental sulci present Serration Density: Distal: 2/mm (More dense toward the base) Mesial: 1.9/mm (More dense toward the base) Morph Type 3 (possibly Carcharodontosaurid) Dentary? Mesial Mesial carina extends 3/4 crown height Denticles parallel to the base and rounded at tip Serration Density: Distal: 2.2/mm (More dense toward the base) Mesial: 2.4/mm (More dense toward the base) Additional Example Morph Type 4 (Possible Dromaeosaurid like) Lateral Tooth Tooth is recurved Mesial Carina extends to 3/4 crown height with a lingual twist Denticles parallel to the base Serration Density: Distal: 3.6/mm Mesial: 4.6/mm Additional Example Serration Density: Distal 3/mm, Mesial 5/mm Morph Type 4A (Dromaeosaurid like) Tooth is slightly recurved Mesial Carina extends to base with a lingual twist Denticles parallel to the base Serration Density: Distal: 3.6/mm Mesial: No Serrations Additonal Example Serration Density: Distal 3.3/mm, Mesial: No Serrations
  17. Hi everyone! I have my eye on what looks like a nice Spinosaur claw from the kem kem, or at least that what the seller claims it is. It does seem to have that round divot under the base of the proximal end that I've seen described as telltale, but you can never be to careful with kem kem claws which might just be the most outright faked fossil on the market so I figured I'd ask for an independent opinion on the potential of funny business (besides what looks to be one or two repaired breaks near the tip). Measurements given are 8.5 x 3 cm. Any insight is appreciated as always!
  18. Hi everyone! I've had this little Kem Kem tooth for a while now and was hoping for some help IDing it. My gut is telling me premax, maybe from a little Carch which I'm guessing from the thickness though it will probably wind up in the indet. Theropod pile. No base to provide CBL and CBW so I took measurements at the best cross section that was left. There is a mesial carina though it is very subtle and only extends halfway down the specimen's length. Any insight is appreciated as always!
  19. Hi everyone! Yeah pretty self explanatory. There's one area in the very middle that slightly concerns me but even then it lines up pretty well. Figured I'd get a second opinion before a purchase. What do you all think?
  20. Hello everyone! Can anyone please help me with the identification of these crocodile teeth? All come from Kem Kem (Morocco) I don't have a more precise location. To the eye there seems to be some Antaeusuchus or Uruguaysuchidae teeth. The dimension is 10/15mm Could any expert help me please? IMG_20230402_104734_220.webp IMG_20230402_104722_616.webp IMG_20230402_104718_143.webp IMG_20230402_104730_942.webp IMG_20230402_104701_797.webp IMG_20230402_104739_967.webp IMG_20230402_104714_605.webp IMG_20230402_104744_939.webp IMG_20230402_104711_083.webp IMG_20230402_104726_200.webp
  21. fossilsonwheels

    Kem Kem Lamniformes teeth

    I recently picked up 5 Lamniformes teeth from the Kem Kem Beds. 3 are easy ID’s, Leptostyrax. There are 2 that I need a little help with. First one is 2.1 cm. I know both Cenocarcharias and Haimirichia are known from the Kem Kem beds. I have no examples of either in my collection. I didn’t find a lot of examples of Haimirichia so I can really pin it down.
  22. Hi everyone! I'm back with another weird Kem Kem bone. I wasn't sure what to make of this thing at first. A buddy even suggested Crinoid at one point. The closest I can find is a gill plate of a giant fresh water coelacanth. Because apparently that was a thing. The pictures I've been seeing are all from Mawsonia though I'm wondering if I'm 1. on the right track and 2. if it can be IDed as Mawsonia or if in typical Kem Kem fashion there were a bunch of these things swimming around that all had a plate that looks like this. The bone is about 16.5 cm by 15.2 cm with 17.8 cm as the longest measurement and up to 1.4 cm thick. So what do you all think?
  23. We very often see collectors asking if the tooth they are looking to purchase or have in their collection been restored, extended or is fake. Most all the teeth in question come from Morocco and are Spinosaurid (sold as Spinosaurus) and Carchardontosurid (sold as Carcharodontosaurus). Sellers sometimes are aware of what they have and will state the resto and repairs, others may just be clueless, and others may just be deceptive. Bottom line you always need to be very cautious with of any of these purchases. How to avoid disaster 1) Buy high quality teeth, yes it will cost you more, but it may be the only way to insure you are getting what you are looking for. 2) Become educated on what good and bad teeth look like and hopefully this topic may help. 3) Unless you are a real expert post your interest here on the forum before you purchase. 4) When buying anything online make sure it can be returned for a full cash refund 5) No guarantee but purchase from reputable dealers. Avoid auction sites they typically have the most problem teeth. Characteristics of Theropod roots: : Roots are not solid they are typically hollow and thin walled : Although they are all slightly different depending on jaw position they may or may not have a lingual or labial depression which may begin in the crown. Some may have a cavity, resorption pit, where the replacement tooth sits : Roots should have some taper from the lingual to labial side, Spinosaurid roots are not round : Roots may have a sheen depending on preservation. Here are a few in my Collection to see what high quality rooted teeth should look like Juvenile small Spinosaurid tooth What are red flags: : Matrix, matrix and matrix. Moroccan's use it to hide defects, composites or repairs. Avoid avoid ones that cover large areas.. : Colors, Colors and lots of different colors.... : Different surface textures. Look at the examples there is a consistency in color and texture. The surface is homogeneous.. : Teeth with long roots should be priced accordingly. If you are looking at something big and all real it will be expensive. : The transition between Crown and Root should be smooth, no bumps, gaps and areas of fill My Recommendation: Save your money and only purchase teeth that have clean roots. Don't waste your time figuring out if it's been repaired, composited etc. or hoping its good. Photos may not be adequate to see everything. UV lights typically do not work on Moroccan matrix resto. Best to be able to see what you are buying and not rely on guess work. These clean rooted teeth are available you just have to be patient and be willing to pay more. Now the ugly Everything I've mentioned is seen below Extended Fake root Orginal root Extended Seller said this was composite Fake Root, Looks like a Cylinder Fake root, Wrong shape Extended Banana Spino Tooth . Who can say whats going on here Fake Root Fake root, Crown that has repaired/restored??? Composite using matrix fill
  24. BirdsAreDinosaurs

    Kem Kem dinosaur project

    I finally made a start with a project I was planning for a while now: drawing the Kem Kem dinosaur fauna! First I will draw each dinosaur individually and then I will combine them all in one big landscape. As you can probably tell, I am not aiming for 100% scientific accurary. I do however try to take into account what I know about these animals and what is known about their skeletons. This is the first one and probably the most iconic of them all: Spinosaurus. I will give regular updates here about this fun project, so stay tuned!
  25. BirdsAreDinosaurs

    Miniature dinosaur museum

    Welcome to... my tiny dinosaur museum! I used to work at the largest natural history museum of the Netherlands and now I created a little copy of my own. I just recently started collecting dinosaur teeth from Morocco. At the moment I have 7 teeth: two Spinosaurids, one Carcharodontosaurid, 3 Abelisaurids and a Titanosaurid. As you can see, I also like to collect dinosaur models that are more or less accurate according to latest insights. The museum is still under construction: the labels are not correct (this is what I got from the fossil dealers, I need to make better ones) and I need more figures (I really hope one of my favourite manufacturers will produce a nice Rugops in the future) and teeth. Those Dromaeosaurid models are obviously out of place, but they will stay as long as I do not have more appropriote models. The next few teeth I would like to add are one bigger Carch, one specimen of the teeth that are often labeled as Deltadromeus and one or more Dromaeosaurid-like teeth. I do not know many good dealers in the EU, so if anyone has any tips that would be greatly appreciated!
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