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Found 30 results

  1. I've taken a pretty firm position on the validity of Nanotyrannus ever since I spent some time looking at the Dueling Dinosaurs shortly after they were discovered. Subsequent to that, new information that I've become aware of just cemented my position. I'm interested in understanding the "truth" and have no problem looking at all available specimens that are in private hands or museums. The optics are very clear to me and I have difficulty understanding the debate. Collectors need to form their own opinion on this but I would like to share with you why I believe its a valid species. I present here several examples supporting my case, many others exist but will leave it at this. You always hear we need see sub-adult/baby specimens of Trex so a comparison can be make against Nanotyrannus claimed specimens. Shocking but some specimens do exist in institutions and private hands. Included in this discussion are a couple of examples of these specimens other are out there some in private hands and hopefully will be published. Case in point here is a jaw of a Baby T rex in private hands. Its only 35 cm wide. Paleontologists involved in this debate are very well aware of its existence. This cast is in my collection Top jaw: T rex (BHI6439), White jaw: Nanotyrannus (BMPR2002.4.2) Note that the length of the tooth row is nearly identical, Top jaw contains 12 circular alveloi typical of adult T rex's while the white jaw contains 17 rectangular alveloi typical of what is described as Nanotyrannus. Morphology of the teeth is classic for Trex: fat, oval and robust. Morphology of white jaws teeth is classic for Nanotyrannus: rectangular, lean and more gracile. There are a number of other morphological differences that Pete Larsen has identified with the jaws but the eye test should be enough for this discussion Compare the widths for both of these species, there is no comparison its pretty obvious how robust one is over the other. If the Jaws were not enough here are the arms and claws. Here is a sub-adult Trex arm (UCRC-PV1) housed at the University of Chicago (Paul Sereno). Paleontologists involved in this debate are very well aware of its existence. This is the only complete Trex arm and hand that has been found to date and articulated including the scapula and coracoid and partial skeleton including vertebrae. The bones including the claws compare well with those of known adult T rex and the vertebrae are about twice the size of Jane (Nanotyrannus) Every known bone from the hand of a Nanotyrannus is larger than and morphologically different from every known hand bone of adult or sub-adult T rex. I'm not aware of any other Tyrannosaurid where juvie and adult arms become smaller as the animal ages. Here is an sketch comparing the two to see how different the bones are. Pete Larsen also points out that "Animals do not change the orientation of semicircular canals, imbedded within solid bone, as they grow" Compare the long bone of Nanotyrannus with arrow to the one below on T rex Sue Sue - Carpal is much shorter and with a different morohology... Here is a comparison of a carpal digit I Wyrex (Top), Nanotyrannus (Middle), Sue (Bottom) Both Trex's have a larger bulge at the end of the bone. Very different morphology. You can argue ontogenetic changes but the robustness is present in the arm from above. Lets move on to the claws - Top T rex Digit I - Sue (Left), Digit II - Darwin (Right) (Darwin an adult Trex which was the commercial name its been recently sold to a Museum) Bottom Nanotyrannus - Digit I (Left), Digit II (Right) (BMRP 2006.4.4) Morphology is very different and Digt II of Darwin is very similar to that of the sub adult claw see below. Sub Adult Trex claw Digit II, 5 cm .. compares quite well to adult Darwin not Nanotyrannus Lots of the photos provided by Peter Larsen One last item to present is the Witmer Labs study on Tyrannosaurid braincases...it clearly demonstrates that there is a difference between T-rex and Nanotyrannus. Conclusion on the Cleveland "Nano" skull "Given the obvious closeness of CMNH 7541 and BMR P2002.4.1 "Jane", it would likely have been taxonomically decisive. Our data on CMNH 7541 may be taken as evidence for the validity of N. lancensis on the grounds that it is ‘‘too different’’ from T. rex. However, we are hesitant to argue that the debate over its status is settled for the simple reason of sample size. CMNH 7541 presents one specimen—one highly divergent specimen. Although we see no clear signs of distortion or pathology in the braincase, its divergent nature concerns us, and we maintain that the possibility remains that future discoveries will show CMNH 7541 to be aberrant. For that reason, we urge caution and continue to regard the specimen’s status as open" https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ar.20983 New Insights Into the Brain, Braincase, and Ear Region of Tyrannosaurs (Dinosauria, Theropoda), with Implications for Sensory Organization and Behavior Lawrence M. Witmer Ryan C. Ridgely First published: 26 August 2009 https://doi.org/10.1002/ar.20983 It's unfortunate that the skeleton Jane does not have the two sketal areas discussed in this topic: Arms and Braincase. More reason for the Dueling Dinosaur Nanotyrannus to be studied. The End...
  2. Worn Nano tooth?

    I got this worn theropod tooth a little while ago. It's labeled as Nanotyrannus from the Lance Formation, Weston County, Wyoming. However, it looks a bit odd compared to other Nano teeth I've seen. Is it a tip from a larger tooth? Can it even be identified when this worn? Have at it Scale is in centimeters
  3. Lance formation matrix fun

    I had picked up a box full of Lance formation matrix bits a little while ago. This evening while in the garage I couldn't fight the urge to poke around a bit at a couple of pieces. I probably should only focus at one at a time....but temptation. I didn't really mess will the champsosaurus vertibrea in the matrix. I broke out the dental picks and started to play with these chunks. I didn't stay out there long because it doesn't have heat but there are some interesting things that are exposed. Hopefully I can get a spot in the basement set up so I can get deeper into this. I don't know I this fits better in the fossil hunting section or the fossil preparation section.
  4. Nanotyrannus?

    I've been looking at this tooth labeled Nanotyrannus from the Lance Formation in Wyoming (scale is in cm) . Now, the photos aren't great but I'm sort of wondering if it really is Nanotyrannus. It isn't quite as rectangular as other nano teeth I've seen (though I'll readily admit that I haven't seen a lot) and seems less curved. Any thoughts?
  5. Lance fm Vertebra

    Hi all, wondering if you could help me on this vertebra's identity, I found it in Wyoming's lance formation this past summer. I think it might be amphibian but I'm not sure. It's about a quarter of an inch long.
  6. 2 ID posts in 1 day?

    1. Partial mammal tooth? (Peace River FL, Mio, Plio or Pleisto). Maybe a piece of horse. 2. Another partial mammal tooth (potentially odontocete? also Peace River FL). 3. Yet another piece of Mammal tooth (Peace River).
  7. Quick ID pt. 1: Croc verts?

    These two vertebrae were found in a Lance formation channel deposit last month. The guide w/ me said they were both crocodile. I thought I would post their pictures see what you all think. 1. Cervical?
  8. A few IDs from recent trip out west

    Hi all! I returned from my trip out west a few days ago and wanted to have some fossils identified before I do my big recap of my experience and my photos from the field. Here are some specimens I found of which I'm not certain of their identity. (This will not be my last post of this type from this trip). 1. Small theropod tooth (Richardoestesia sp.?, Acheroraptor temertyorum?). (There appear to be serrations on the front of the tooth but the majority of them seem to have worn off or did not extend further than midway through the tooth). (Near Newcastle, WY, Lance Fm.). 2. Turtle/Croc toe bone? (Near Newcastle, WY, Lance Fm.). 3. Larvae? (Douglas Pass, Green River Fm.).
  9. Consolidated all my informational Topics to make it easier to reference. Will keep updating since some of the reference material is outdated. Have to thank @PFOOLEY for suggesting this consolidation and it makes it a lot easier for me to access these topics as well as our members to know what's out there. General Tips in Buying Theropod Teeth Dinosaur Anatomy 101 Stratigraphy of the Late Cretaceous in North America Best Books for Dinosaur Identification Triassic Identification of Dinosaur Teeth from the Triassic of New Mexico Jurassic: Morisson Formation Identification of Theropod Teeth Tips in Buying a Sauropod Foot Claw Ornithischians from the Morisson Formation Jurassic: Europe Dinosaurs of Costal Portugal Jurassic Theropods of Germany Cretaceous: North America Identification of Theropod Teeth in the Hell Creek and Lance Formations Identification of Troodontid Teeth Identification of Tyrannosaurid Teeth From North America Identification of Ankylosaurid Teeth Identification of Acheroraptor Teeth North American Tyrannosaurids what is Described Identification of Claws and Ungals from the Hell Creek and Lance Formations Identification of Pachycephalosaurid and Thescelosaurus Teeth Tooth Features in Tyrannosaurids The Case for Nannotyrannus Dakotaraptor Teeth and Claws Hell Creek Fm Identification of Bones /Claws from Alvarezsaurids from North America Hell Creek Faunal Representation Identification of Theropod Teeth from Judith River and Two Medicine Formations . Theropod Assemblage of New Jersey Cretaceous: Kem Kem of Morocco Kem Kem Theropod Teeth Kem Kem Theropod Tooth Morphology Identification of Sauropod Teeth from the Kem Kem Tips in Purchasing a Spinosaurid Hand Claw Identification of Claws from the Kem Kem Identification of Spinosaurid Jaws from the Kem Kem Republic of Niger Identification of Theropod Teeth Cretaceous: South America Patagonia's Theropod Teeth Cretaceous: Uzbekistan: Identification of Theropod Teeth: Uzbekistan Sauropod Teeth: Uzbekistan Cretaceous: Europe Identifying Baryonyx Teeth
  10. This is now my third post on my finds from last years trip to Wyoming. If you want to check out my previous posts click on these links - Theropod claw and Microsite Fossil ID. (* = two specimens of similar size) 1. Brachychampsa montana tooth (1 cm). 2. Thescelosaurus neglectus vertebra (2.5 cm). 3. Lonchidion selachos (?) Hybodont spine (3.5 cm).
  11. 2017 Wyoming Microsite Finds

    Last summer on my trip out west, I found these teeth at a Lance Formation microsite in Wyoming. Many of the fossils were found through splitting a yellowish-orange concretion filled matrix, while others were free from it. This site was on the same ranch where I found my theropod hand claw but in separate locality. It's rather late (EST) at the time I'm posting this but wanted to show some of the teeth I found and was hoping I could get some help identifying them. 1. Pectinodon bakkeri 2. Richardoestesia sp. (?) 3. Lizard/ Worn Herbivorous Dinosaur Tooth (?)
  12. 2017 Wyoming Trip

    Before I go back out west to the badlands of Wyoming in July, I thought I should post some pictures of one of my best finds from last years trip; My theropod hand claw (Nanotyrannus/ Juvenile T. Rex?). Hope you enjoy!
  13. I’m probably posting this in the wrong topic area. I’m not sure which it goes in. This link is from my alma mater. I’ve posted the link before. https://fossil.swau.edu/ It’s to their fossil database. Many of the fossils have a 3D viewer option where you can look at the fossil 360 degrees. I saw this Trodon tooth on there this evening and thought it was pretty cool looking. I can’t recall ever seeing a Trodon tooth on here before so I thought I’d share the link. It came from the Lance Formation in Wyoming. I’ve been on the dig a couple times. I can’t get the link to go directly to the tooth so you can view it 360, but if you click on the browse tab after you go to the link then type in the catalog # HRS06576 it will take you to it. There are over 20,000 fossils on there from the Lance formation. I saw lots of teeth on there. Some from species I’d never heard of before. This is another Trodon tooth I saw on there. I think it’s very cool looking. I forgot to crop my screenshot. Oops.
  14. Not sure how many have see this Devian Art Representation of the Dinosaur fauna in the Hell Creek & Lance Formations. It's Paleop interpretation of what he believes exists. Download the image in the link to see it best. Not everything he shows has been officially described but the number and type look pretty good. It's pretty cool The image is the link
  15. Troodontids certainly are one of my favorite dinosaur families. Intelligent and what a set of chompers to eat you with, all you can ask for in a cool dinosaur. Will start this with the Pectinodon teeth in my collection and will continue to add as I take photos. This species has some of the coolest teeth. Pectinodon bakkeri is the only named Troodontid in the Hell Creek and Lance Formations. This is a tooth taxon and its teeth are significantly much smaller than its big cousin Troodon formosus. Lance Formation Hell Creek Formation A couple of the teeth in matrix are partially rooted which is extremely rare since the teeth are so small Hell Creek Formation - Powder River County Hell Creek Formation
  16. Only two Ankylosaurs are reported from the Hell Creek and Lance Formation the Nodosaurid Denversaurus schlessmani and Ankylosaurid Ankylosaurus magniventris. I've identified my material to reflect these dinosaurs and if additional ones are discovered will change my identification. Material from these dinosaurs are extremely difficult to find with Teeth and Scutes being the most common. Bones are extremely rare. My Tail Club - also have a container full of isolated pieces that go to the missing portion. A few representative scutes from my collection. Most come from one area and are most likely associated. Have +30 from this site. One of my dinner plate scutes I call this my Bactrian Camel double humped scute. Different locality with a bulbous base.
  17. A member asked me to check out some auction offerings for Morrocan Dromaeosaurus teeth and I did and they of course they were improperly identified. Not being familiar with the identification of these teeth I tried to help him by checking around on different dealer websites and was appalled at what I found. What I refer to as key dinosaur suppliers, on the web, were selling Dromaeosaurus teeth from the Hell Creek Formation of Montana. What makes me more upset is that I told one of them that they do not exist. All the listings were beautiful teeth however they were not Dromaeosaurus but looked like Nanotyrannus. Reminder to all those that are interested in purchasing teeth or bones from the species Dromaeosaurus it does not exist in the Hell Creek Formation or Lance Formation or Morocco. That species can only be found in the States from the campanian deposits of the Judith River Formation and Two Medicine Formation of Montana. Canada also has a number of formations where it can be found also in Campanian deposits but you rarely see them offered for sale. The Hell Creek and Lance Formations have only two Dromaeosaurids described Acheroraptor and Dakotaraptor. So if your interested in purchasing a Dromaeosaurid tooth from those faunas it needs to be from one of those dinosaurs. Since domestic Dinosaur dealers don't seem to have their act together I suggest that you post any interest in these type of teeth here on the forum before you buy to be sure its properly identified.
  18. Bird and Pterosaur material is extremely rare in the Hell Creek and Lance Formations. Over the years I've purchased and found a few bones that I believe fit this category but not certain. Some may be mammal or reptilian. I'm not a bird guy so if you see something that does not seem right please let me know. Not a lot is published so I'm always open to learning. I showed this to a well respected theropod paleontologist and the potential ID's were his thoughts Troodontid?
  19. Paper describes shell remains of eight fossils referable to Helopanoplia distincta from the Hell Creek Formation of Montana and North Dakota that, in combination, document nearly all aspects of the shell morphology of this taxon. Helopanoplia distincta is based on just two shell fragments from the Lance Formation of Wyoming. The new fossil material thoroughly supports the validity of Helopanoplia distincta. There is also a very informative map showing where the exposures are of the Hell Creek and Lance Formations. Joyce WG, Lyson TR. (2017) The shell morphology of the latest Cretaceous (Maastrichtian) trionychid turtle Helopanoplia distincta. PeerJ 5:e4169 https://doi.org/10.7717/peerj.4169
  20. I wanted to let people know of this resource. It is an online digital catalog of fossils found in the Lance Formation of Wyoming. I know they have found over 24,000 fossils, but I don't know how many have made it into the digital image catalogue. This is the URL https://fossil.swau.edu/ I'm not sure how many species there are in the catalogue. When I've been on the dig I personally found mostly: Edmontosaurus annectens Nanotyrannus lancensis But I know they also have some of the following in the collection to name a few: Thescelosaurus neglectus Tyrannosaurus rex Pachycephalosaurus wyomingensis Triceratops horridus Dromaeosaurus albertensis Trodoon formosus Leidyosuchus sternbergi Aublysodon lancensis Testudines Brachychampsa Cordata Crocadilia Unio There are more. Please pardon any spelling errors on any of the names. This data is from my Alma Mater, Southwestern Adventist University in Keene, TX. My mentor, Dr. Art Chadwick has been leading a dig every June for over 20 years at the dig site in Wyoming. In 2000 I asked Dr. Chadwick if there was anything he had need for the department. He said he wanted to buy a GPS device for the Dino dig. So I provided the department the funds they asked for to buy a fairly simple GPS device. They started using it that summer to map out the dig site and every single fossil they found from then on. No more staking out the dig with stakes and ropes. That first GPS revolutionized the way they mapped out the dig site. The GPS devices they use now are much more sophisticated and far more expensive. I'm not a paleontologist, but he has invited me to the dig every year since then. I'm not sure how many thousands of bones the have pictures of, but they say it is the largest digital catalog of its kind. Hope someone can find it a useful resource. Here is a description from the site. I couldn't copy and paste so I took a screen shot.
  21. Leptoceratops or Triceratops?

    I can't really tell if this had a single or double root. Cool shed tooth either way. The seller said it's from the Lance Formation, near Newcastle, Wyoming.
  22. Even more Lance formation fossils

    In going through some matrix from the Lance Formation, Late Maastrichtian, Wyoming, which shares much fauna with the Hell Creek formation, I have found even more interesting things since my last posting on this area. 1. The first I believe is a theropod, similar to the one in my previous posting, although slightly larger. 2. Is this (unknown 11) also a theropod tooth, or maybe crocodillian? 3. Is unknown 10 a pycnodont fish tooth? 4. Unknown looks like what has been identified as a ceratopsian "spitter" tooth in a previous posting, but this seems awfully small. 5. I have no idea as to what unknown 9 is. It looks like a tiny jaw with teeth, but seems to be closed off on both ends. I tried to clean it more, but was afraid of breaking it - it's only 2mm. 6. Unknown 6 looks like some tiny amphibian (maybe Newts) teeth that I have seen from the Permian, but not sure. 7. Unknown 7 also reminds me of ceratopsian teeth, but once again, this is really small and flatter. The hash marks are 1mm. Thanks for any help.
  23. Hi guys, On a auction website I bought a collection of small Dinosaur/ Mammal fossils from the Lance Formation in Wyoming. First photo: Have you any idea which teeth belong to what dinosaur or Mammal? And is the central left piece an crocodile scute? Second and third photo : Is it true, this could be an Ankylosaur scute? thank you very much!
  24. Hadrosaur Tooth

    Hi guys I recently got sent a package from some friends for my birthday which included some nice little goodies including tickets to see the Dinosaurs of china event in Nottingham this summer, Included was this lovely piece identified as purely teeth and bone from a Hadrosaur which was found in the Lance Formation, I was just trying to get any information regarding a species level is possible? I'm not entirely sure if this is possible but hopefully you guys familiar with the lance formation fauna may help. Many thanks, Chris.H
  25. Mystery Lance Formation Tooth

    Found a small tooth in matrix I had collected from a trip I did a few years ago to Niobrara County in Wyoming, the Lance Formation. Went through my Hell Creek/Lance Books, Papers and Guide and had no luck with anything. Tooth looks like a croc, shape and base but it has a spoon crown with a center ridge that is very different than most teeth I've seen and throws me for a loop. Hopefully someone has seen something similar. Thank you for any assistance. Lance Formation and its 7 mm long
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