Fossildude19 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Hello all, I found this spiriferid brachiopod steinkern (Mediospirfer? Mucrospirifer?) during my last outing to Deep Springs Road, in Lebanon/Earlville, NY. It has 3 dimples in it, that are unusal to me. I'm looking to get some opinions as to the cause here? Are they pathological ? Are they damage from predators? Are they just the way the shell grew, due to proximity to something kind of spiny? Or are they artifacts of the fossilization process? Thank you in advance, for any replies. @Shamalama @Tidgy's Dad 4 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM - APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandpa Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Fossildude19 said: Are they damage from predators? I believe you are on to it with this proposal - teeth marks. I have found multiple brachs and amminoids in the Finnis Shale (Penn.) in Jacksboro, Tx. What I'd like to know is "Who is the predator?" Your finds are Devonian in age, mine are Penn, yet they look very much alike. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilcrazy Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Judging from the muscle scars, your Brachiopod appears to be an internal cast. The dimples are more than likely where epibionts that grew with the test. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 2 hours ago, fossilcrazy said: Judging from the muscle scars, your Brachiopod appears to be an internal cast. The dimples are more than likely where epibionts that grew with the test. Thanks for your answer, John. Makes perfect sense. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM - APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandpa Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 See the following: Causes of damage to brachiopods from the MiddlePennsylvanian Naco Formation, central Arizona, DAVID K. ELLIO'IT AND SUSANNE D. BOUNDS Lethaia20:327-335 (Thanks @piranha) Alexander, R. 1986a: Resistance to and repair of shell breakage induced by durophages in Late Ordovician brachiopods. Journal of Paleontology 60, 273-285. Brunton, C. H. C. 1966: Predation and shell damage in a visean brachiopod fauna. Palaeontology 9, 35M59.Carter, R. M. 1968: On the biology and palaeontology of some predators of bivalved Mollusca. Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology 4, 29-65. Elliott, D. K. & Brew, D. C. In press: Cephalopod predationon a Desmoinesian brachiopod from the Naco Formation, Central Arizona. Journal of Paleontology. Sarycheva, T. G. 1919: The study of damage to Carboniferous productoid shells. Trudy Paleontologicheskiy Institut 18, 280-292. Hope this helps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Looks like @fossilcrazy has the best suggestion for the cause of those dimples. Since it is a cast, could those be "pearl" like areas where the brach was covering some irritant? I've not heard of that in brachs before but am just throwing out an idea. 2 -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 It's a good idea, thanks, Dave. I appreciate your input. It bears some further research, at least. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM - APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Here's a middle Devonian spirifer with attached Cornulites. These little devils may have left those marks. 3 Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted December 28, 2019 Author Share Posted December 28, 2019 Thanks for that, Mikey! That is entirely possible. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM - APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Possibly sclerobionts such as microconchids. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282661200_Mapping_sclerobiosis_A_new_method_for_interpreting_the_distribution_biological_implications_and_paleoenvironmental_significance_of_sclerobionts_on_biotic_hosts/link/5617e83008ae6d1730846c8f/download 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 Thank you, Adam. I appreciate the link. 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM - APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticocerasman Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I noticed that hte left and right mark are at the same location on each side on the brach, it might have been a mark from an internal organ? (lophophore?) but I don't know much on brachiopod anatomy. 1 growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 On 1/3/2020 at 4:32 AM, Manticocerasman said: I noticed that hte left and right mark are at the same location on each side on the brach, it might have been a mark from an internal organ? (lophophore?) but I don't know much on brachiopod anatomy. Thanks, Kevin. I don't think that is the case. Since this is a steinkern, I think the damage must have come from outside of the shell. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM - APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brach3 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) Judging from the muscle scars I haven't ever found... Can you make more detail photo? On 24.12.2019 at 12:46 AM, fossilcrazy said: The dimples are more than likely where epibionts that grew with the test. it looks like "blister" or sponges... see for more: YUANLIN SUN and ANDRZEJ BALIŃSKI Silicified Mississippian brachiopods from Muhua, southern China: Rhynchonellides, athyridides, spiriferides, spiriferinides, and terebratulides, 2011 ("blister", Fig. 4.) Have you ever found them in original, not like print (trace fossils) ? @fossilcrazy Edited January 12, 2020 by Brach3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packy Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 They also could be marks from a Coral that it got wedged between and continued to push into when opening up. When I use acid to remove corals from matrix, its amazing whats trapped in the corals that were all growing together. Packy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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