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My Canada fossil project of 2020


dinosaur man

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After getting my Horseshoe canyon formation Hadrosaur and Ceratopsian fossils I decided to set a goal for 2020. To get dinosaur and and other fossils from the Carboniferous to the Cretaceous  from around Canada formations. If anyone could help me out with this please PM me, it would be much appreciated. Thank you!! 

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You really need to let this go. Your quest for a fossil from Dinosaur Park is a unhealthy obsession. You have been told numerous times about the laws.  You should really listen to all those who have taken their time to give you information about this topic. 

 

Sincerly Dave

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13 minutes ago, Darktooth said:

You really need to let this go. Your quest for a fossil from Dinosaur Park is a unhealthy obsession. You have been told numerous times about the laws.  You should really listen to all those who have taken their time to give you information about this topic. 

 

Sincerly Dave

I know, but I have been trying to get a Tyrannosaur tooth from there for years. Its on the top of my bucket list and has been for a while. And have seen other members who have them so there must be some way.

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Perhaps scale your expectations so as not to set up for disappointment. Focus on what is truly attainable; you have a lifetime ahead to cross off bucket-list items. It isn't a race. Many members here have been collecting and chasing after their bucket-list items for longer than you've been alive. Patience, young grasshopper. ;) 

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16 minutes ago, dinosaur man said:

I know, but I have been trying to get a Tyrannosaur tooth from there for years. Its on the top of my bucket list and has been for a while. And have seen other members who have them so there must be some way.

 

6 minutes ago, Kane said:

Perhaps scale your expectations so as not to set up for disappointment. Focus on what is truly attainable; you have a lifetime ahead to cross off bucket-list items. It isn't a race. Many members here have been collecting and chasing after their bucket-list items for longer than you've been alive. Patience, young grasshopper. ;) 

I agree with Kane. I am 52 years old. There are things that I have been wanting for years and still haven't got. Even though I have been interested in fossils since childhood, I didnt start serious collecting till I was in my 30's because I didnt know where to go to find or even buy fossils. I wasnt trying to be mean in my reply, by the way. I understand your interest but yes, you need some patience. Sometimes things have a way of finding you, when you stop trying so hard. ( That is an observation from 52 years of life experiences).:)

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Tyrannosaurid teeth from Alberta occasionally come available on the open market and some pop up at the Tucson show.  Most come with a valid disposition since I know the source.  However most if not all are from the Drumheller area not DPF..   Having said that my guess it's that unless you've collected one most DPF claims are actually from the Horseshoe Canyon Fm. where tyrannosaurid teeth are fairly common.

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I am with Kane and Dave you have to be patient when building a fossil collection. I have not been fossil hunting much in the last couple of years because of ill health. I do purchased fossils but only at bargain prices because that what I can afford. I wanted an Dimetrodon tooth for probably 30years and out of the blue I was sent one from a friend, my patients payed off. I don’t have an amazing collection of fossil but it is not to bad. I have got some plant, dinosaur, ammonites, mammal , coral and trilobites. What I am saying is pic up some less expensive but interesting specimens to build your collection up and expand your knowledge base . Your country has its fossil collecting laws , please don’t brake any of them just for a trophy tooth that eventually your get anyway .
 
all the best Bobby 

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Agreed with everyone else; just keep an eye out and be patient. Eventually you'll end up with what you're looking for.

 

It might be my suspected DPF Tyrannosaurid tooth you're thinking of, but bear in mind that I bought it several years ago from someone who couldn't be 100% sure of the locality within Alberta themselves. I don't even know how many decades ago that fossil was found. If it wasn't for the morphology seemingly matching that of described Daspletosaurus teeth from the locality, I'd still be more reluctant to go with calling it a DPF tooth, so finding a genuine one that is categorically labelled as being from there might take you some time.

 

If you run headlong into trying to find something rare and specific right this minute, then there's a good chance you'll overpay or even worse, get swindled on what you're actually buying, either through rushing through verifying details or because someone knows you're desperate (not that anyone on here would intentionally do that). I collect other things besides fossils, and I've more often than not found that your purchasing goals have a way of finding you in the end. :dinothumb:

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If you go to school and get a doctorate in paleontology and specialize in the dinosaur fossils of Alberta I'm absolutely sure you will achieve your goals and have several specimens of your very own. Are you up to putting in the effort? Remember that it is well known throughout the world that good things don't come cheap.

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Mark.

 

Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them!

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All good points here. With some goals, it just doesn’t make sense to limit/pressure yourself to a timeframe based on when a rock flies around a star. :)

 

The other thing that’s helpful is having a plan (and maybe you do, it just sounds like your plan consists mostly of presuming on the assistance and generosity of others, which ends up being less effective, less rewarding, and less socially acceptable than working at it yourself). I think if you look at how some of the other members here developed their collections, you’ll see a few common threads. Invariably, there’s been a lot of research, a lot of relationships built, and a fair amount of money spent (and often a lot of traveling). All of those things take time, and it isn’t fair to yourself to carry the pressure of doing in a year what’s taken others decades. Do some research, find out how others have built their collections, then adapt their methods to what’s practical for your situation. If this is really an important goal for you, then there are choices you can make now and down the road to help you get there. You’ll enjoy the journey as well as the destination, and find it much more satisfying than relying on the generosity of others. 

 

Your goal is a lofty one but not unattainable, and hey, it’s not physically impossible to attain in the short term. But it will probably be more helpful if you set some intermediate goals in the meantime to help get you to that point, rather than just focusing on the grand finale. That way you’ll enjoy the journey, increase your odds of success, and likely end up with a bunch of other cool stuff along the way.:)

 

Edit: Didn’t see the scope was ‘Carboniferous to Cretaceous in Canada.’ Nova Scotia and New Brunswick are the best bets for Carboniferous stuff in my opinion, but I seriously doubt you’ll see anything for sale legitimately from there (and collecting laws practically preclude self-collection). Some Permian fossils from Prince Edward Island might be an attainable target from a purely legal standpoint, but they’re incredibly hard to find and would definitely have to be self-collected.

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45 minutes ago, Arion said:

All good points here. With some goals, it just doesn’t make sense to limit/pressure yourself to a timeframe based on when a rock flies around a star. :)

 

The other thing that’s helpful is having a plan (and maybe you do, it just sounds like your plan consists mostly of presuming on the assistance and generosity of others, which ends up being less effective, less rewarding, and less socially acceptable than working at it yourself). I think if you look at how some of the other members here developed their collections, you’ll see a few common threads. Invariably, there’s been a lot of research, a lot of relationships built, and a fair amount of money spent (and often a lot of traveling). All of those things take time, and it isn’t fair to yourself to carry the pressure of doing in a year what’s taken others decades. Do some research, find out how others have built their collections, then adapt their methods to what’s practical for your situation. If this is really an important goal for you, then there are choices you can make now and down the road to help you get there. You’ll enjoy the journey as well as the destination, and find it much more satisfying than relying on the generosity of others. 

 

Your goal is a lofty one but not unattainable, and hey, it’s not physically impossible to attain in the short term. But it will probably be more helpful if you set some intermediate goals in the meantime to help get you to that point, rather than just focusing on the grand finale. That way you’ll enjoy the journey, increase your odds of success, and likely end up with a bunch of other cool stuff along the way.:)

 

Edit: Didn’t see the scope was ‘Carboniferous to Cretaceous in Canada.’ Nova Scotia and New Brunswick are the best bets for Carboniferous stuff in my opinion, but I seriously doubt you’ll see anything for sale legitimately from there (and collecting laws practically preclude self-collection). Some Permian fossils from Prince Edward Island might be an attainable target from a purely legal standpoint, but they’re incredibly hard to find and would definitely have to be self-collected.

Thank you!!

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And sorry for the Tyrannosaur tooth from the Dinosaur Park Formation I didn’t mean for it to sound illegal. Just something I have on the top of bucket list to get that I’ve been wanting for ever.

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17 hours ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

If you go to school and get a doctorate in paleontology and specialize in the dinosaur fossils of Alberta I'm absolutely sure you will achieve your goals and have several specimens of your very own. Are you up to putting in the effort? Remember that it is well known throughout the world that good things don't come cheap.

Every museum that I know of takes an exceedingly dim view of their researchers maintaining personal private collections.  Dim, as in it is written into your employment contract that you cannot maintain a personal collection that conflicts with your employment responsibilities.  In a university this would also be considered an unethical conflict of interest.  I believe the same is true of the Geological Survey of Canada.  If you keep a personal collection, the temptation would be virtually irresistible to highgrade and keep the best material for yourself and use the OK "at least it shows the important characters" material for the research/museum collection.  Also, you would be using your employer's resources to pay for your own collection, which would be theft.  Finally, even professional paleontologists must have a permit to collect, and any permit from any provincial, state, or federal park or agency will require all collected material to be deposited in a museum collection.  If you are caught keeping anything in a personal collection you will likely be barred from obtaining a permit in the future, you will be charged and prosecuted for theft, and (since you won't be able to get permits for your work any more) you will be fired.

 

As a rule, you should expect that working as a professional paleontologist will be in conflict with building a personal collection on multiple levels, if that collection overlaps with your employment responsibilities in any way.

 

Don

 

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I keep saying this and it seems to go in one ear and out the other. Canada has pretty strict heritage laws that prevent private collection of fossils in many provinces and directly block export of fossils from a number of provinces even if privately collected. Protected sites like Dinosaur Provincial Park and Joggins are extremely tightly protected and stealing fossils from these sites will get you sent to jail. Dream or not, this is the reality of the legal system here. 

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4 hours ago, jdp said:

I keep saying this and it seems to go in one ear and out the other. Canada has pretty strict heritage laws that prevent private collection of fossils in many provinces and directly block export of fossils from a number of provinces even if privately collected. Protected sites like Dinosaur Provincial Park and Joggins are extremely tightly protected and stealing fossils from these sites will get you sent to jail. Dream or not, this is the reality of the legal system here. 

I know the rules I was going to try to buy one from before the ban.

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Hi,

 

How will you know that what you are going to buy will have been found before the ban ? With a certificate ? Naive ! Anyone can now make a certificate if they are equipped with a computer and a printer... And to earn money a seller will be willing to announce that his fossil dates before ban.
 
Coco
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----------------------
OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici

Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici
Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici
Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici
Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici
Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici
Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici

Un Greg...

Badges-IPFOTH.jpg.f4a8635cda47a3cc506743a8aabce700.jpg Badges-MOTM.jpg.461001e1a9db5dc29ca1c07a041a1a86.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, Coco said:

Hi,

 

How will you know that what you are going to buy will have been found before the ban ? With a certificate ? Naive ! Anyone can now make a certificate if they are equipped with a computer and a printer... And to earn money a seller will be willing to announce that his fossil dates before ban.
 
Coco

You can’t really visually tell yourself ( unless  if a fossil has been out of the ground and displayed for a long  time. I have lots of fossils from Victorian collections and the fossil definitely show they been collected many many years ago. Combing this with old labels, packaging ). This is a problem that worries me too,  personally I would ask the seller to provide provenance and if they could not satisfy me I would not purchase from them .  
 

 

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2 hours ago, Bobby Rico said:

You can’t really visually tell yourself ( unless  if a fossil has been out of the ground and displayed for a long  time. I have lots of fossils from Victorian collections and the fossil definitely show they been collected many many years ago. Combing this with old labels, packaging ). This is a problem that worries me too,  personally I would ask the seller to provide provenance and if they could not satisfy me I would not purchase from them .  
 

 

Thank you Bobby Rico I have some other fossils from Alberta collected before the ban decades ago. And know what you mean, if I find one I will compare it to my other Alberta fossils.

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6 minutes ago, dinosaur man said:

 if I find one I will compare it to my other Alberta fossils.

Provenance cannot be determined simply by comparing the fossils themselves, but by verifiable collecting information (who, when, where).

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...How to Philosophize with a Hammer

 

 

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5 hours ago, Coco said:

How will you know that what you are going to buy will have been found before the ban

There were a number of individuals that applied for a disposition and were grandfathered in when the ban went into affect and were provided disposition numbers.  Most of the material that I see available on the open market comes from one of these individuals and use his disposition numbers.    

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3 hours ago, Kane said:

Provenance cannot be determined simply by comparing the fossils themselves, but by verifiable collecting information (who, when, where).

As Kane said provenance has to have information as much as possible  backing the sellers claims or don’t buy. One thing  more I like about old collection is the labels Old copper plate text on old discoloured card. Also in the U.K. so many fossil collecting sites have been lost to building developments and renamed this helps place an age to when the fossils may have been collected .

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I know a couple of local collectors that have indicated to me they can distinguish a good percentage of Dinosaur Park Fm Teeth from those of the Horseshoe Canyon Fm.  Just like I can distinguish a good percentage those of HCF from those of JRF.    No guarantees however and like its been said the best way is through good provenance.

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Out of curiosity when did the ban take effect?  I have the impression it was many decades ago, but I don't know the actual date and I've not yet been able to figure it out from Google.

 

Don

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Tell you what, when all is said and done. I will sell you this beautiful "T-Rex" tooth from DPF or any other locality you choose.

It will even come with a COA. Just fill in the blanks with whatever information you want it to have. ;)

  

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