Brownies Beach 1-15

[The Jersey Devil]

5 minutes ago, paxhunter said:

Your first tooth the hastalis looks like a file tooth to me

 

Yeah seems like it, just doesn’t have the root.

 

If it was leached it wouldn’t have any root left inside the enameloid shell.

[hokietech96]

7 minutes ago, paxhunter said:

Your first tooth the hastalis looks like a file tooth to me

 

 

1 minute ago, The Jersey Devil said:

Yeah seems like it, just doesn’t have the root.

 

If it was leached it wouldn’t have any root left inside the enameloid shell.

Sorry for the stupid question but is a file tooth mean the location or row in the mouth? So this tooth at some point had a root?

[The Jersey Devil]

2 minutes ago, hokietech96 said:

 

Sorry for the stupid question but is a file tooth mean the location or row in the mouth? So this tooth at some point had a root?

File tooth in that context means one of the working teeth. So yeah it had a root at one point.

[hokietech96]

2 minutes ago, The Jersey Devil said:

File tooth in that context means one of the working teeth. So yeah it had a root at one point.

Thanks. So much to learn. 

[paxhunter]

9 minutes ago, hokietech96 said:

 

Sorry for the stupid question but is a file tooth mean the location or row in the mouth? So this tooth at some point had a root?

there are 5 rows of teeth only the first 2 are completely developed the rest are in various stages of development so on urs some how it became dislodged  before the root had a chance to form

 

[fossilnut]

@paxhunterCould you explain your comment, please. Is this a tooth that is not currently in use but is a replacement tooth once the working tooth is lost or discarded? Does that have any bearing on the condition that it was found?

Please disregard this post. I had not read the previous ones. Sorry Your explanation is appreciated and helpful

[paxhunter]

1 minute ago, fossilnut said:

@paxhunterCould you explain your comment, please. Is this a tooth that is not currently in use but is a replacement tooth once the working tooth is lost or discarded? Does that have any bearing on the condition that it was found?

Correct the tooth was never used that tooth would have still been back in the jaw forming and most likely during a feeding session the tooth got knocked out before developing the rest of the way and eventually fully forming and rotating up to the front position and be 100% developed thats why there is no root it never formed the root in one of the last part of the tooth to develop they are much rarer because they normally dont fall out or are only found when a shark dies they have a dentition with a few file teeth on display at CMM

 

[paxhunter]

15 minutes ago, The Jersey Devil said:

File tooth in that context means one of the working teeth. So yeah it had a root at one point.

No a file tooth never had a root it had not developed yet

 

[The Jersey Devil]

2 minutes ago, paxhunter said:

Correct the tooth was never used that tooth would have still been back in the jaw forming and most likely during a feeding session the tooth got knocked out before developing the rest of the way and eventually fully forming and rotating up to the front position and be 100% developed thats why there is no root it never formed the root in one of the last part of the tooth to develop they are much rarer because they normally dont fall out or are only found when a shark dies they have a dentition with a few file teeth on display at CMM

 

And what if the root was simply eroded after it fell out?

[paxhunter]

3 minutes ago, The Jersey Devil said:

And what if the root was simply eroded after it fell out?

That is a possibility with some locations  but since it was found at Calvert we have great fossilization conditions for root preservation unlike other areas so id lean file over eroded or leached out root

 

[hokietech96]

2 minutes ago, paxhunter said:

That is a possibility with some locations  but since it was found at Calvert we have great fossilization conditions for root preservation unlike other areas so id lean file over eroded or leached out root

 

So this is more of the rare type of find?  Either way it’s very cool

[paxhunter]

1 minute ago, hokietech96 said:

So this is more of the rare type of find?  Either way it’s very cool

Yes much more rare I have thousands of hastalis but only like 5 file 

 

 

[The Jersey Devil]

5 minutes ago, paxhunter said:

That is a possibility with some locations  but since it was found at Calvert we have great fossilization conditions for root preservation unlike other areas so id lean file over eroded or leached out root

 

Yeah I barely collected Calvert since I focus on NJ, where there is a lot of erosion and reworking. I actually have a Meg from Brownies on my first trip that has a very similar missing root.

[paxhunter]

Just now, The Jersey Devil said:

Yeah I barely collected Calvert since I focus on NJ, where there is a lot of erosion and reworking. I actually have a Meg from Brownies on my first trip that has a very similar missing root.

Very cool i only have a couple Meg file teeth actually found one last month im always very careful not to say im certain on anything lol but I have been collecting the Cliffs for over 30 yrs so im not wrong as often as other things in my life lol

[hokietech96]

Thanks for all the great information!  I hope to one day find a meg!  I been pretty lucky so far between this first trip and my Jersey finds

10 minutes ago, paxhunter said:

Very cool i only have a couple Meg file teeth actually found one last month im always very careful not to say im certain on anything lol but I have been collecting the Cliffs for over 30 yrs so im not wrong as often as other things in my life lol

 

[The Jersey Devil]

31 minutes ago, paxhunter said:

Very cool i only have a couple Meg file teeth actually found one last month im always very careful not to say im certain on anything lol but I have been collecting the Cliffs for over 30 yrs so im not wrong as often as other things in my life lol

Yeah experience is a helper. Here are some pics of that tooth:

 

What do you think?
 

 

 

 

[paxhunter]

17 minutes ago, The Jersey Devil said:

Yeah experience is a helper. Here are some pics of that tooth:

 

What do you think?
 

 

 

 

Wow im torn on this one my first reaction was oh broken tooth but the last couple pics where you can clearly just see enamel and nothing on it makes me say file so I would say you have a file tooth that got broken after it was out of the jaw thats a good one there

[The Jersey Devil]

5 minutes ago, paxhunter said:

Wow im torn on this one my first reaction was oh broken tooth but the last couple pics where you can clearly just see enamel and nothing on it makes me say file so I would say you have a file tooth that got broken after it was out of the jaw thats a good one there

Thank you, when it was found I thought it was just a busted meg. I’m glad @hokietech96 made this topic and you looked at this tooth 

[hokietech96]

4 minutes ago, The Jersey Devil said:

Thank you, when it was found I thought it was just a busted meg. I’m glad @hokietech96 made this topic and you looked at this tooth 

Haha. Glad I contribute something...without knowing it. 

[cck]

I’d like to hear more about this from more people... seems that preservation condition is so variable ( especially at beach sites) that it would be hard to draw great conclusions, but I want to

hear more

[The Jersey Devil]

14 hours ago, cck said:

I’d like to hear more about this from more people... seems that preservation condition is so variable ( especially at beach sites) that it would be hard to draw great conclusions, but I want to

hear more

@MarcoSr @Al Dente @non-remanié @siteseer @Plax

[rand95]

Congrats on the nice finds.

[hokietech96]

2 hours ago, rand95 said:

Congrats on the nice finds.

Thanks. Now I need to work on the IDs. 

[MarcoSr]

20 hours ago, The Jersey Devil said:

@MarcoSr @Al Dente @non-remanié @siteseer @Plax

 

I don't think that the hastalis posted was an active tooth that fell out during feeding and leached out although that is possible.  Some sites have lots of leaching because of the chemicals in the formations and other sites don't have much at all.  The teeth at Brownies Beach really show great preservation in situ.  I think the tooth was a last row tooth that was still forming.  Last row teeth usually are only mostly hollow crowns without roots.  Sharks don't loose any teeth from back rows feeding (unless something extremely unusual caused severe jaw damage itself during feeding) because the back row teeth are folded back in the jaw and not erect like the active feeding teeth.  The reason you don't find many of these back row teeth is because the shark has to die for them to be fossilized.  Normal sharks shed thousands of active teeth during a lifetime so there are many more of them.

 

Below are pictures of two of my jaws, a silky and a dusky, where you can see the forming last row teeth without roots and how the back row teeth are folded back in the jaw:

 

Carcharhinus falciformis (Silky Shark) lower jaw 6 rows Lingual view:

 

 

 

 

Carcharhinus obscurus (Dusky Shark) lower jaw 7 rows lingual view:

 

 

 

 

 

Marco Sr.

[The Jersey Devil]

1 hour ago, MarcoSr said:

 

I don't think that the hastalis posted was an active tooth that fell out during feeding and leached out although that is possible.  Some sites have lots of leaching because of the chemicals in the formations and other sites don't have much at all.  The teeth at Brownies Beach really show great preservation in situ.  I think the tooth was a last row tooth that was still forming.  Last row teeth usually are only mostly hollow crowns without roots.  Sharks don't loose any teeth from back rows feeding (unless something extremely unusual caused severe jaw damage itself during feeding) because the back row teeth are folded back in the jaw and not erect like the active feeding teeth.  The reason you don't find many of these back row teeth is because the shark has to die for them to be fossilized.  Normal sharks shed thousands of active teeth during a lifetime so there are many more of them.

 

Below are pictures of two of my jaws, a silky and a dusky, where you can see the forming last row teeth without roots and how the back row teeth are folded back in the jaw:

 

Carcharhinus falciformis (Silky Shark) lower jaw 6 rows Lingual view:

 

 

 

 

Carcharhinus obscurus (Dusky Shark) lower jaw 7 rows lingual view:

 

 

 

 

 

Marco Sr.

 

Could the Meg I posted be from one of the middle rows where the root is partially filling the enameloid “shell”?