Show us your Devonian Epizoans & Pathological Brachiopods!

[Mediospirifer]

Here are a few micrographs of some areas of particular interest on the Mediospirifer specimen. (No, I don't have my new microscope yet. These areas were just cool enough that I wanted to photograph and post them now!)

 

First, a photo of the threadlike epibiont. I thik it is, indeed, Ascodictyon. Note the thread intersections with a stellate arrangement:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next, we have some interaction between different species. I think the larger epibionts are all Hederella canadensis, with Ascodictyon threads. Note that the blob of Hederella at upper left is on top of the Ascodictyon, while the Hederella specimens at lower left and in the middle of the image have Ascodictyon growing across them. We have at least three different periods of growth, here!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the next image, we have a specimen of H. filiformis growing across the base of the H. canadensis colony, with Ascodictyon threads crossing both! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this next (last for now) image, we have the H. filiformis at lower left, and a damaged (I think) H. canadensis in the middle, both with strands of Ascodictyon crossing them. Yes, the H. canadensis died and became damaged before the Ascodictyon grew across it! This is a complex ecology to be carried on one little brachiopod. 

 

[Brach3]

18 hours ago, Crusty_Crab said:

I believe this is Aulopora sp. on a solitary rugose coral.

 wow! I like it. 

 

but I don't like an idea to use "Fenton's 1924 paper" (-100 years ago).

For understanding:  all these my 3 cases are not Aulopora sp., but Syringopora sp. 

  

but all books till 1970 years say me "it's Aulopora sp", but Sokolov's books from 1980 say me "it's Syringopora sp. "

because several "floors" of the corals 

 

And I think it's better to see more later books. I have some very interesting books about devonian D2 (NY) if you need I can send it.   

Do you have more examples to check my new version?

 

16 hours ago, Mediospirifer said:

The possible interactions between epibionts can be fascinating.

Yes!  very interesting " while a younger colony overlaps it vertically. Very cool!" 

 

@Mediospirifer and here I see a damage on the same stages.  

may be a predation, it's very interesting!

 

for home museum  @Crusty_Crab

 

7 hours ago, Mediospirifer said:

Here are a few micrographs of some areas

 

"We have at least three different periods of growth, here!"

Yes, fantastic! these cases can say us how it was and show a speed of growing.  

i've read that small epizoans grown more faster than brachiopods so we can see their interactions (damage of the brachiopod valve)  

but here we see "epizoans to epizoans" 

 

7 hours ago, Mediospirifer said:

This is a complex ecology to be carried on one little brachiopod. 

yes ans it's more interesting to see an interactions than the host (brachiopod)

i've just understood that i want a microscope too )))

[Crusty_Crab]

@Brach3 Fenton's monograph on the Lime Creek fauna is useful for the sheer scale and because its amply illustrated, but its certainly possible the taxonomy is outdated. Any references you would like to share would be greatly appreciated. I did a quick internet search and it looks like theres a paper from 1982 that lists auloporids, Hederella and other epibionts on brachiopods from this locality: https://scholarworks.uni.edu/pias/vol89/iss2/11/ 

 

13 hours ago, Brach3 said:

 

@Mediospirifer and here I see a damage on the same stages.  

may be a predation, it's very interesting!

 

for home museum  @Crusty_Crab

 

 

 

Good eye on the brachiopod damage, I didn't even notice those until you pointed them out!

[Mediospirifer]

4 hours ago, Crusty_Crab said:

Good eye on the brachiopod damage, I didn't even notice those until you pointed them out!

 

Neither did I, and I usually do notice such things! It looks to me as if a predator tried to bite, and cracked the shells, but failed to penetrate to the flesh--the ridges aren't noticeably distorted the way a clefted shell shows. This looks more like the damage I see on my Vinlandostrophia specimens than on my Glyptorthis. 

 

Can you post a photo of the other side of the brachiopod? I'm curious about how the scars look on that side.

 

Now I'm going to have to look at my Pseudoatrypa devoniana specimens for hinge-side damage! 

 

18 hours ago, Brach3 said:

i've just understood that i want a microscope too

 

 

Mine is a Stereozoom 4 by Bausch & Lomb, with a Celestron digital microscope that fits in place of an ocular. It's a good setup for basic work, but getting good micrographs of three-dimensional objects takes a lot of time and effort. Two of those images I posted above are composites of 15 or 16 different photos!

 

I like your photos of the modern epibiont communities. There are certainly a lot of different critters that like the same space! 

 

Looking at my Ascodictyon specimens, I have to wonder whether they might have been fungal growths. Are they still considered Incerta sedis, or has anyone assigned them to a larger group that is generally accepted?

 

 

[Brach3]

2 hours ago, Mediospirifer said:

cracked the shells, but failed to penetrate to the flesh

Yes, it looks like in this way.  We can suggest that it's water storm damage. we can see such damages but they are always from one side of brachiopods. But here we see two side damages. May be predator was young (very young) and couldn't destroy the valves. 

 

 

@Crusty_Crab if we want to have the exact answer we should find any more brachiopods from this field (place).

The old brachiopods can show many damages.

 

when i had found my first brachiopod with damage I only put it in black box, but when you have many cases you can build a hypothesis. I don't remember where and can't find a thread where эму posted all my photos with damages. About Cephalopod Predation (I think it's the same situation too).

 

2 hours ago, Mediospirifer said:

I'm going to have to look at my Pseudoatrypa

 

Yes it's a good idea. Atrypida usually have damages. I think "new" finds will be ahead )

 

7 hours ago, Crusty_Crab said:

Any references you would like to share would be greatly appreciated.

 

Ok. I've sent some already for @Mediospirifer 

i'll sent in the evening tomorrow. 

 

2 hours ago, Mediospirifer said:

I like your photos of the modern epibiont communities.

 it's the most interesting. here we can see "speed" of growing epizoans and brachiopods. 

 

p.s. going for a record!!! )))

[Crusty_Crab]

@Brach3

 

Took another picture with the other side:

 

 

[Crusty_Crab]

Some more specimens from the same site

 

 

 

[Crusty_Crab]

[Crusty_Crab]

This is Theodossia hungerfordi (Hall, 1858), I always wondered what caused the circular impressions

[Crusty_Crab]

Cyrtospirifer whitneyi (Hall, 1858)

 

 

 

[Brach3]

@Mediospirifer and @Crusty_Crab

yes here the same damage, but not obvious reason

valve with smooth (rounded) edges and with damage 

 

 

in any way the brachiopod's mantle was not damaged

I have several brachiopods with a chipped part of the valves

and we can see the scars 

 

and here we can see exactly broken off part

 

so here can be a mechanical damage (storm)

 

[Brach3]

On 2/28/2021 at 8:39 AM, Crusty_Crab said:

I always wondered what caused the circular impressions

 

it looks like brachiopod Crania sp. (D3). In USA it calls Petrocrania sp.  see here another example link 

 

 

We use funny name "брахиопода-прилипала" it's like "brachiopoda-remora".

and these brachiopod-epizoans can repeat the structure of the brachiopod-host   

 

 

and i've seen one example with "brachiopod-epizoans on the bivalves-epizoans" 

 

p.s. Theodossia and Cyrtospirifer are the most common fossils in the Russia  Cyrtospirifer is my favorite 

 

and here interesting that epizoans repeat the brachiopod's commissura (form)

 

here some more examples 

 

 

because water current ... and your example the same (intravital settlement, colony), but when brachiopod had died the epizoan covered the other part of brachiopoda (brachiopoda changed its position in space)   

 

 

@Crusty_Crab you have brachiopods with very good quality , there can be amazing epizoans 

 

[Mediospirifer]

@Crusty_Crab those are nice specimens!

 

I'm particularly looking at the Cyrtospirifer. I see two clear injuries here: 

 

 

The red line next to the hinge shows a failed predation attack. The shells were cracked, and the edges bent inwards, but the predator gave up before damaging the brachiopod's flesh and it healed well. The other red line marks an area where the shell was slightly chipped, but again the brachiopod's flesh wasn't injured. This type of chipping injury was called a scallop by Richard Alexander. (Journal of Paleontology vol. 60 (1986) pp. 273)

 

Both are visible on the other valve as well:

 

 

I particularly like the hinge view. This shows the morphology of the bite scar very nicely!

 

 

As does the "wingtip" view: 

 

 

I have a few Ordovician Vinlandostrophia sp. that show similar bite scars; I thought I had already photographed and posted them, but apparently I still need to do that!

 

 I foresee more photography in my near future... 

 

[Brach3]

13 hours ago, Mediospirifer said:

 I foresee more photography in my near future... 

 

 we will see 

it looks like Crowded conditions (it's Tightness of the settlement (colony))

 

@Mediospirifer please see some examples / sometimes it's soo hard to understand the reason 

and we can see several reasons ))) 

 

and here Crowded conditions

 

and here Crowded conditions = 2 brachiopod of the same genus (type)

 

but here an injury when we can see the scars 

 

Crowded conditions (controversial example)

 

Crowded conditions

 

Crowded conditions (Tightness of the settlement)

 

284 indentation

285 Theodossia sp. (Crowded conditions too) on the dented valve, you can see the display of the sculpture of the neighboring valve

 

Colony: 

 

273 modern mussels (Crowded conditions)

274a и 274b Cyrtospirifer is on the bivalve mollusc (in life possition) = Crowded conditions

 

the brachiopods change their form (bend around the obstacles)

they (cyrtospirifer sp) had very short pedicle and couldn't deflect their orientation  

the brachiopod's mantle deposits shell material around the obstacle

 

so Crowded conditions = we call them "dancing brachiopod" ))) 

 

may be i have more photo, i'll see...

 

@Crusty_Crab the epizoan (brachiopod) repeat the substrate (brachiopod sculpture), and we can see 

rotation of the epizoan's sculpture relative to the brachiopod sculpture

 

[Mediospirifer]

So all of these (3 specimens, more to come when I've cropped them) would be due to crowding? I can see that for this first Vinlandostrophia:

 

 

 

 

 

This next Vinlandostrophia has a more prominent pathology. I still think it looks like a bite scar that crushed but didn't cut the shell:

 

 

 

 

 

Here are the wingtip views. Normal side first:

 

 

And pathological:

 

 

Here's an interesting specimen. Strophomena (or something similar), with a curious impression. Would this be an example of bioimmuration in a brachiopod? 

 

 

 

There's also a small cleft on the opposite side from the impression, and a number of places where the plications aren't as straight as it seems they should be. On the other hand, I see in my larger Glyptorthis insculpta specimes that the outermost growth lines often seem a little distorted, so it may be an effect due to aging.

 

If this is a bioimmured specimen, what might the impressor have been? 

 

I'll keep exploring my collection, and taking photos. 

 

[Brach3]

On 3/4/2021 at 9:56 AM, Mediospirifer said:

would be due to crowding

 

@Mediospirifer

sometimes it's very hard to understand the reason

here is due to crowding,

 

but sometimes geological processes 

this brachiopod we have discussed for 2-3 years  

 

it's exactly injury, we can see scars

 

like here injury + ledge

this Cyrtospirifer sp looks like due to crowding ))) and only scar says us = not, it's injury

 

and here one side is injury, an other is due to crowding ))) but it's all the injury

 

and so and so too, but more injury

so we can have many versions

 

On 3/2/2021 at 2:25 PM, Brach3 said:

may be i have more photo, i'll see...

 

yes, on these holidays and some examples of the valve's attrition

these valve's attrition are actually something unreal (so please wait a little bit)

 

 all the brachiopods!!!

[Mediospirifer]

5 hours ago, Brach3 said:

this brachiopod we have discussed for 2-3 years  

 

Interesting! 

 

That makes me think of one of my few additions to the Collections (Cyrtina sp.): LINK. Mine has similar distortion. So do some of the figures in James Hall's "Palaeontology of New York vol. 4: Brachiopoda". Here's a screenshot of Hall's Cyrtina hamiltonensis (figs. 38-52): 

 

 

And here are my best images of my specimen. I call mine Cyrtina sp. rather than Cyrtina hamiltonensis because my specimen doesn't show the micro-structure in Fig. 52; mine is smooth-surfaced. It may be that when the matrix opened and released my specimen (found as surface float) that the fossil delaminated and lost the surface layer with the texturing. I have another specimen from a different locality still in matrix that shows delamination. I can't say whether the intact surface has texture or not because it's still in the matrix.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mediospirifer]

6 hours ago, Brach3 said:

it's exactly injury, we can see scars

 

That's what I thought, but when you said the Cyrtospirifer above was from crowding, I had to ask. I thought that one looked similar to this.

 

I'll post more photos of the other ones when I've finished going through the photo set. 

 

[Brach3]

16 hours ago, Mediospirifer said:

Here's a screenshot of Hall's Cyrtina hamiltonensis (figs. 38-52): 

@Mediospirifer  thank you! very interesting, i always want to know how looks like support brachial in dancing brachiopods  

and it's crazy to make slots slicing / grinding on the single examples but  scientists can )))))))))))) in good way 

 

this brachiopod is from the collection of Roman Kalabin

 

he has been in Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle (MNHN) in France

and send me 2 photo. there are  we can see brachial of the spiriferida (without dancing)

 

and about 2-3 years discussion ))) his version was "dancing" brachiopod, my version was geological processes.

may be we have 2 situation (it is an other version )))),

but in the end we have decided "dancing" brachiopod

 

what was the arguments for geological processes? please see some examples :

it can be any form if geological processes has been 

 

and here geological processes

 

but here is exactly "dancing" brachiopod, where 1 & 2 are the neighbors

 

and here "dancing" brachiopod + injure (may be storm and damages by neighbor's valves)

       )))

 

and here "dancing" brachiopod ( be due to crowding) 

 

and after 2-3 years discussion + many new brachiopods in this way ))) we have decided = "dancing" brachiopod )))

 

 

[Brach3]

 

On 3/2/2021 at 2:25 PM, Brach3 said:

284 indentation

285 Theodossia sp. (Crowded conditions too) on the dented valve, you can see the display of the sculpture of the neighboring valve

 

Diana, please see some more examples of Theodossia   

i always put in my boxes these examples

 

 

 

 

 

#336 it's a single and great find for all the story

1 godsend for 100 years 

 

and here  Cyrtospirifer sp 

i have photed without light to show the shadow of the ledges

 

ps Theodossias above have  the same ledges and indentation

but they are too small and light + white color  = no  shadow

but there the same situation )))

 

---------------------

and "284 indentation"

 

this example is for 5-10 years discussions ha ha ha

i see here indentation, it's exactly not modern mechanical damage  

it looks like indentation by neigbor's valves and we can see the structure of the neighbor's valve

or i see what i want to see ))))))  and no more examples for 7 years 

 

-------------

 

and one more eхamples 

the brachiopod's mantle was damaged

and we dont' have common brachiopod's sculpture 

 

 

 

and it has a ledges + scar, like fish scales

may be mechanical damage by storm 

 

and example №2 

fatality ))) new genus but it's Cyrtospirifer sp. 

 

this is the common Cyrtospirifer

  

 

and mutant )))

and reason was here

 

it looks like fatal injury of the brachiopod's mantle

and mantle hasn't recovered so we have new structure of the brachiopod 

----------- added 

 

@Mediospirifer what is it ? it looks like Sphenothallus sp.

 

[Mediospirifer]

That is an impressive collection of very cool pathologicals!  

 

21 hours ago, Brach3 said:

what is it ? it looks like Sphenothallus sp.

 

To the microscope!  I hadn't noticed those before...

 

Taking a closer look, the feature at lower right is a small spherical object, not a ring. The upper one is part of a patch of matrix with debris. I'll have to take some photos tomorrow; there are some epizoans on this specimen.

 

In the meanwhile, have a look at this Tropidoleptus carinatus.  It's clefted in the middle, with a collection of epizoans. I'll have to photograph this specimen, too! 

 

 

[Crusty_Crab]

 

Thanks! That scar near the hinge/cardinal area was very large and obvious, but I wasn't sure if it was caused in life or a metal tool while the whole area was being mined (these were found in spoils piles of the former mine).  

 

On 3/1/2021 at 3:12 PM, Mediospirifer said:

@Crusty_Crab those are nice specimens!

 

I'm particularly looking at the Cyrtospirifer. I see two clear injuries here: 

 

 

The red line next to the hinge shows a failed predation attack. The shells were cracked, and the edges bent inwards, but the predator gave up before damaging the brachiopod's flesh and it healed well. The other red line marks an area where the shell was slightly chipped, but again the brachiopod's flesh wasn't injured. This type of chipping injury was called a scallop by Richard Alexander. (Journal of Paleontology vol. 60 (1986) pp. 273)

 

Both are visible on the other valve as well:

 

 

I particularly like the hinge view. This shows the morphology of the bite scar very nicely!

 

 

As does the "wingtip" view: 

 

 

I have a few Ordovician Vinlandostrophia sp. that show similar bite scars; I thought I had already photographed and posted them, but apparently I still need to do that!

 

 I foresee more photography in my near future... 

 

 

[Crusty_Crab]

On 3/6/2021 at 1:58 AM, Brach3 said:

@Mediospirifer  thank you! very interesting, i always want to know how looks like support brachial in dancing brachiopods  

and it's crazy to make slots slicing / grinding on the single examples but  scientists can )))))))))))) in good way 

 

this brachiopod is from the collection of Roman Kalabin

 

he has been in Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle (MNHN) in France

and send me 2 photo. there are  we can see brachial of the spiriferida (without dancing)

 

and about 2-3 years discussion ))) his version was "dancing" brachiopod, my version was geological processes.

may be we have 2 situation (it is an other version )))),

but in the end we have decided "dancing" brachiopod

 

what was the arguments for geological processes? please see some examples :

it can be any form if geological processes has been 

 

and here geological processes

 

but here is exactly "dancing" brachiopod, where 1 & 2 are the neighbors

 

and here "dancing" brachiopod + injure (may be storm and damages by neighbor's valves)

       )))

 

and here "dancing" brachiopod ( be due to crowding) 

 

and after 2-3 years discussion + many new brachiopods in this way ))) we have decided = "dancing" brachiopod )))

 

 

 

That's very helpful. I'm still very new to brachiopods (I didn't even know they grew in colonies that could impact each other) and trying to sort out what damage could be done by post-mortem geological processes vs. damage done in life. From the geological processes pictures, it looks like they're mostly what I would call stress fractures with no sign of healing, would that be correct?

[Mediospirifer]

26 minutes ago, Crusty_Crab said:

That's very helpful. I'm still very new to brachiopods (I didn't even know they grew in colonies that could impact each other) and trying to sort out what damage could be done by post-mortem geological processes vs. damage done in life. From the geological processes pictures, it looks like they're mostly what I would call stress fractures with no sign of healing, would that be correct?

 

I have one brachiopod (Glyptorthis insculpta) that was obviously worn down on both sides (and some that are worn on one side), and I thought this was because they had lived next to rocks or in crevices. I'll have to locate and photograph it...

 

Regarding postmortem damage from pathologies, you are correct that nonlethal injuries can be recognized by the fact that they've healed, at least to some degree. Some of the specimens shown on this thread have suffered through fairly major injuries!

 

If you look at my bitten Vinlandostrophia above, and compare it to the crowded one, you should be able to see that the missing wingtip on the bitten one reveals the crystal structure of the fossil. This lost wingtip is post-fossilization breakage, while the missing wingtip on the crowded specimen is a smooth margin that shows valve structure right to the edge, and a complete commissure. That's how I know it was a pathology rather than postmortem or geological damage.

 

I'll also have to locate and post some geologically-distorted fossils for comparison one of these days. Along with everything else! 

 

[Brach3]

@Mediospirifer Dear, Diana & all the women on the TFF sites  

Please accept my congratulations on the 8 marth (women day)!!!

I wish you always be so beautiful and cheerful

More interesting fossils and all what you want  

I don't know do you celebrate such a holiday in the United States?

But here in Russia we have 3 days holidays for all country 

And all men congratulate and present flowers for the women at work, home and so on

My congratulations 

 

ps i'll answer about brachiopods some later...