Nimravis Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I came across this piece today when going through some matrix that I had received from Doren @caldigger. Anyone have an ID on this piece? I never came across one in the past. Thanks in advance. @MarcoSr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticocerasman Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 looks like a worn dolphin tooth. 1 growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Your specimen, especially the wear pattern on the enamel, actually reminds me of a cone from a Desmostylus tooth. I've seen some really small baby/juvenile teeth. The below picture is from TFF @32fordboy. Edit: See below replies. Marco Sr. 5 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBMugu Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I agree with a small single Desmostylus tooth, I have found a couple that look similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBMugu Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I bet Doren wishes he had that one back! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Congrats on the rare find. 1 Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 5 hours ago, JBMugu said: I bet Doren wishes he had that one back! If Doren @caldigger wants this tooth, I would be happy to send it to him for his collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 10 hours ago, MarcoSr said: Your specimen, especially the wear pattern on the enamel, actually reminds me of a cone from a Desmostylus tooth. Marco, thanks for the help on this one, I really appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Ralph it came to you as a gift, far be it for me to want it returned. You keep it buddy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Hi Marco Sr., I'm not sure that's a Desmostylus cusp. More photos would help (one from the other side and one straight down at the biting surface. It does look like one but the enamel on a Desmostylus tooth is very thick as you can see in the top view in the photo showing different views. To find that tooth with the enamel to be worn away like that except near the tip but the dentin to survive like that would seem highly unlikely. It's true that the teeth can be that small but they're usually stumpier rather than elongated like that and I would expect the dentin to be a smaller diameter than you see at the tip. Given the locality and a first glance, it's probably a Desmostylus cusp but I've seen a ton of them. I've known at least four of the people who collected that Fresno County site back in the 70's and 80's. They found numerous complete teeth and even more partials and isolated cusps. The cusps can be worn down and chipped in different ways but not all the way round. That looks really to me. I think there's a possibility that it's a fish tooth. @isurus90064 @fossillarry Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 33 minutes ago, siteseer said: Hi Marco Sr., I not sure that's a Desmostylus cusp. More photos would help (one from the other side and one straight down at the biting surface. It does look like one but the enamel on a Desmostylus tooth is very thick as you can see in the top view in the photo showing different views. To find that tooth with the enamel to be worn away like that except near the tip but the dentin to survive like that would seem highly unlikely. It's true that the teeth can be that small but there usually stumpier rather than elongated like that and I would expect the dentin to be a smaller diameter than you see at the tip. Given the locality and a first glance, it's probably a Desmostylus cusp but I've seen a ton of them. I've known at least four of the people who collected that Fresno County site back in the 70's and 80's. They found numerous complete teeth and even more partials and isolated cusps. The cusps can be worn down and chipped in different ways but not all the way round. That looks really to me. I think there's a possibility that it's a fish tooth. @isurus90064 @fossillarry Jess Here you go, hope these help- this piece is 7 mm long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, caldigger said: Ralph it came to you as a gift, far be it for me to want it returned. You keep it buddy! It is on i'ts way back to it's real collector who found the matrix. I really hope it is something that you do not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, siteseer said: Hi Marco Sr., I not sure that's a Desmostylus cusp. More photos would help (one from the other side and one straight down at the biting surface. It does look like one but the enamel on a Desmostylus tooth is very thick as you can see in the top view in the photo showing different views. To find that tooth with the enamel to be worn away like that except near the tip but the dentin to survive like that would seem highly unlikely. It's true that the teeth can be that small but there usually stumpier rather than elongated like that and I would expect the dentin to be a smaller diameter than you see at the tip. Given the locality and a first glance, it's probably a Desmostylus cusp but I've seen a ton of them. I've known at least four of the people who collected that Fresno County site back in the 70's and 80's. They found numerous complete teeth and even more partials and isolated cusps. The cusps can be worn down and chipped in different ways but not all the way round. That looks really to me. I think there's a possibility that it's a fish tooth. @isurus90064 @fossillarry Jess Jess Seeing the new pictures, it could be a fish tooth. However, the new picture below makes it look like it might have much thicker enamel than the original picture seemed to show. If it is a fish tooth, it is one that I haven't seen before. Edit: See below replies. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 With the new photos I think that's a sheepshead fish tooth which is known from the STH Bonebed. It might be another fish. The root isn't right for a Desmostylus nor a Palaeoparadoxia and the enamel doesn't look right from the side view either. Jess 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 57 minutes ago, siteseer said: With the new photos I think that's a sheepshead fish tooth which is known from the STH Bonebed. It might be another fish. The root isn't right for a Desmostylus nor a Palaeoparadoxia and the enamel doesn't look right from the side view either. Jess Jess Looking at sheepshead fish teeth on line (See below picture) that is a much better match. Sorry @Nimravis for getting this id off to a bad start. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 "By Jove, I think he's got it!" Good sleuths work guys! Can't say the fish in your pic is looking too healthy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 Thanks for your help @MarcoSr and @siteseer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 My gut reaction was fish but I was hoping it was desmostylian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Marco, Sr., I didn't think "sheepshead fish" right away either. I just had a nagging feeling that it was something other than Desmostylus. As you can see in the photo you provided, they have teeth in the roof (and "floor") of the mouth which are more rounded. I first saw fossil sheepshead teeth from the Lower Santa Margarita Formation (late Miocene), Santa Cruz County, CA. Groups of teeth found there have been said to be sheepshead and I've seen anterior teeth that look like small whale tooth crowns but they're worn to the point that a positive ID might not be possible. I would say that sheepshead teeth are at least uncommon , if not rare, in the STH Bonebed. I'm not sure I have one from there (would have to go through my STH fish stuff). Another friend had so many Desmostylus tooth pieces that he got creative and experimented with making different "artworks" with them, gluing some together in the form of a human figure. He brought one to Tucson once and everybody got a kick out of it. Jess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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