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Nimravis

Sharktooth Hill Tooth

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Nimravis

I came across this piece today when going through some matrix that I had received from Doren @caldigger. Anyone have an ID on this piece? I never came across one in the past. Thanks in advance.

 

@MarcoSr

 

B24EFACA-AE69-4E0A-BC2B-792C2B521D53.thumb.jpeg.bc941c0152223324e7901f0d04c80c38.jpeg

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Manticocerasman

looks like a worn dolphin tooth.

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JBMugu

 I agree with a small single Desmostylus tooth, I have found a couple that look similar.

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JBMugu

I bet Doren wishes he had that one back!

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Ludwigia

Congrats on the rare find.

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Nimravis
5 hours ago, JBMugu said:

I bet Doren wishes he had that one back!

If Doren @caldigger wants this tooth, I would be happy to send it to him for his collection. 

 

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Nimravis
10 hours ago, MarcoSr said:

Your specimen, especially the wear pattern on the enamel, actually reminds me of a cone from a Desmostylus tooth.

Marco, thanks for the help on this one, I really appreciate it.

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caldigger

Ralph it came to you as a gift, far be it for me to want it returned. You keep it buddy!

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siteseer

Hi Marco Sr.,

 

I'm not sure that's a Desmostylus cusp.  More photos would help (one from the other side and one straight down at the biting surface.  It does look like one but the enamel on a Desmostylus tooth is very thick as you can see in the top view in the photo showing different views.  To find that tooth with the enamel to be worn away like that except near the tip but the dentin to survive like that would seem highly unlikely.  It's true that the teeth can be that small but they're usually stumpier rather than elongated like that and I would expect the dentin to be a smaller diameter than you see at the tip.

 

Given the locality and a first glance, it's probably a Desmostylus cusp but I've seen a ton of them.  I've known at least four of the people who collected that Fresno County site back in the 70's and 80's.  They found numerous complete teeth and even more partials and isolated cusps.  The cusps can be worn down and chipped in different ways but not all the way round.  That looks really to me.  I think there's a possibility that it's a fish tooth.  @isurus90064   @fossillarry

 

Jess

 

 

 

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Nimravis
33 minutes ago, siteseer said:

Hi Marco Sr.,

 

I not sure that's a Desmostylus cusp.  More photos would help (one from the other side and one straight down at the biting surface.  It does look like one but the enamel on a Desmostylus tooth is very thick as you can see in the top view in the photo showing different views.  To find that tooth with the enamel to be worn away like that except near the tip but the dentin to survive like that would seem highly unlikely.  It's true that the teeth can be that small but there usually stumpier rather than elongated like that and I would expect the dentin to be a smaller diameter than you see at the tip.

 

Given the locality and a first glance, it's probably a Desmostylus cusp but I've seen a ton of them.  I've known at least four of the people who collected that Fresno County site back in the 70's and 80's.  They found numerous complete teeth and even more partials and isolated cusps.  The cusps can be worn down and chipped in different ways but not all the way round.  That looks really to me.  I think there's a possibility that it's a fish tooth.  @isurus90064   @fossillarry

 

Jess

 

 

 

Here you go, hope these help- this piece is 7 mm long.

 

20200121183407.thumb.jpg.6c5a6b1774a2a627d5dfa4e807fe9020.jpg20200121183554.thumb.jpg.5f2a8abd87d358bcb953e4e632958b6a.jpg20200121183438.thumb.jpg.a50947d3795f975c3f0632f8ceb78bca.jpg

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Nimravis
1 hour ago, caldigger said:

Ralph it came to you as a gift, far be it for me to want it returned. You keep it buddy!

It is on i'ts way back to it's real collector who found the matrix. I really hope it is something that you do not have. 

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MarcoSr
3 hours ago, siteseer said:

Hi Marco Sr.,

 

I not sure that's a Desmostylus cusp.  More photos would help (one from the other side and one straight down at the biting surface.  It does look like one but the enamel on a Desmostylus tooth is very thick as you can see in the top view in the photo showing different views.  To find that tooth with the enamel to be worn away like that except near the tip but the dentin to survive like that would seem highly unlikely.  It's true that the teeth can be that small but there usually stumpier rather than elongated like that and I would expect the dentin to be a smaller diameter than you see at the tip.

 

Given the locality and a first glance, it's probably a Desmostylus cusp but I've seen a ton of them.  I've known at least four of the people who collected that Fresno County site back in the 70's and 80's.  They found numerous complete teeth and even more partials and isolated cusps.  The cusps can be worn down and chipped in different ways but not all the way round.  That looks really to me.  I think there's a possibility that it's a fish tooth.  @isurus90064   @fossillarry

 

Jess

 

 

 

 

Jess

 

Seeing the new pictures, it could be a fish tooth.  However, the new picture below makes it look like it might have much thicker enamel than the original picture seemed to show.  If it is a fish tooth, it is one that I haven't seen before.

 

 

5e27ab1f31fcd_sthtooth.thumb.jpg.119dc8d1c0ff7af5a15cca2954cfeaa7.jpg

 

 

Edit:  :DOH:  See below replies.

 

 

Marco Sr.

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siteseer

With the new photos I think that's a sheepshead fish tooth which is known from the STH Bonebed.  It might be another fish.  The root isn't right for a Desmostylus nor a Palaeoparadoxia and the enamel doesn't look right from the side view either.

 

Jess

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MarcoSr
57 minutes ago, siteseer said:

With the new photos I think that's a sheepshead fish tooth which is known from the STH Bonebed.  It might be another fish.  The root isn't right for a Desmostylus nor a Palaeoparadoxia and the enamel doesn't look right from the side view either.

 

Jess

 

Jess

 

Looking at sheepshead fish teeth on line (See below picture) that is a much better match.  :default_clap2:  Sorry    @Nimravis   for getting this id off to a bad start.

 

 

Weird-fish-779489.jpg.109b93791a8132e5b727bbfa849bdc66.jpg

 

 

 

Marco Sr.

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caldigger

"By Jove, I think he's got it!"  Good sleuths work guys! :thumbsu:

 

Can't say the fish in your pic is looking too healthy though. 

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Nimravis

Thanks for your help @MarcoSr and @siteseer.

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Carl

My gut reaction was fish but I was hoping it was desmostylian.

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siteseer

Marco, Sr.,

 

I didn't think "sheepshead fish" right away either.  I just had a nagging feeling that it was something other than Desmostylus.  As you can see in the photo you provided, they have teeth in the roof (and "floor") of the mouth which are more rounded.  I first saw fossil sheepshead teeth from the Lower Santa Margarita Formation (late Miocene), Santa Cruz County, CA.  Groups of teeth  found there have been said to be sheepshead and I've seen anterior teeth that look like small whale tooth crowns but they're worn to the point that a positive ID might not be possible.  I would say that sheepshead teeth are at least uncommon , if not rare, in the STH Bonebed.  I'm not sure I have one from there (would have to go through my STH fish stuff).

 

Another friend had so many Desmostylus tooth pieces that he got creative and experimented with making different "artworks" with them,  gluing some together in the form of a human figure.  He brought one to Tucson once and everybody got a kick out of it.

 

Jess 

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