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gieserguy

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I found this strange Composita subtilita at the Paleo Site bear Kohls Ranch, Arizona. It is from the Middle Pennsylvanian Naco Formation. 
Does anyone know what’s going on with the strange pattern?

 

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Flip side

 

I also should be able to provide slightly higher quality photos if needed, I just reduced the quality to be able to post several

 

PS-I wasn’t sure if I should post this here since I have an ID, so please move it if it shouldn’t be :)

 

 

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Looks like the structural support for the lophophore, the brachiopod’s feeding apparatus, has been preserved. I believe this is called the brachidium but I am not sure. Very cool find. 

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5 minutes ago, gieserguy said:

It's quite nice to have another reason to love this fossil, considering I liked it because it looked quite H.R. Giger -esque haha!

 

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My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned.   

See my Arizona Paleontology Guide    link  The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere.       

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@gieserguy If you let Composita from the Oglesby roadcut sit in vinegar for a short while, just enough to dissolve the outer layer, you can see these structures as well. Probably would work for Composita from elsewhere as well.

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2 minutes ago, connorp said:

@gieserguy If you let Composita from the Oglesby roadcut sit in vinegar for a short while, just enough to dissolve the outer layer, you can see these structures as well. Probably would work for Composita from elsewhere as well.

Oh, interesting! I'll have to try that when I'm home next, I certainly have enough Composita from Oglesby to try it on. I guess I was just lucky enough to find one that had already been weathered away just enough to see the inside structure.

I know the rock at Oglesby is limestone, but I guess I never really thought that the fossils were also preserved in limestone. 

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22 minutes ago, gieserguy said:

Oh, interesting! I'll have to try that when I'm home next, I certainly have enough Composita from Oglesby to try it on. I guess I was just lucky enough to find one that had already been weathered away just enough to see the inside structure.

I know the rock at Oglesby is limestone, but I guess I never really thought that the fossils were also preserved in limestone. 

The Composita at least are silicified. But if you place them loose in vinegar, there's no limestone to act as a buffer so the vinegar will degrade the shells.

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Just now, connorp said:

The Composita at least are silicified. But if you place them loose in vinegar, there's no limestone to act as a buffer so the vinegar will degrade the shells.

Ahhh gotcha, that makes sense. I haven't looked much into acid prep so I only know the very base info on it. I have some big chunks from Oglesby that I could play with a little acid prep on as well. I think you might have just given me some spring break ideas :ninja:

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2 minutes ago, westcoast said:

Very nice find. There are not many places where you get brachidium  preservation like that. Congrats

Thank you! I appreciate it, I'm quite happy with this little beauty :wub:

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13 minutes ago, gieserguy said:

Ahhh gotcha, that makes sense. I haven't looked much into acid prep so I only know the very base info on it. I have some big chunks from Oglesby that I could play with a little acid prep on as well. I think you might have just given me some spring break ideas :ninja:

I've used it with moderate success on the fish bits from there. Vinegar won't destroy the fossils directly, but if a fossil is very thin the vinegar can compromise the limestone underneath and in any cracks and cause the fossil to break up. This is pretty common with the petalodont bits. But a lot of times an engraver is too aggressive, and without any air unit, vinegar is really your best bet.

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54 minutes ago, connorp said:

@gieserguy If you let Composita from the Oglesby roadcut sit in vinegar for a short while, just enough to dissolve the outer layer, you can see these structures as well. Probably would work for Composita from elsewhere as well.

Wait, what?!  I'm gonna get on that tonight.  I don't know how many hundreds (thousands?) of brachs I've collected, and I have yet to find a preserved brachidium.  I'm going be bathing in acetic acid tonight thanks to @Nimravis (oglesby brachs)

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2 minutes ago, Peat Burns said:

Wait, what?!  I'm gonna get on that tonight.  I don't know how many hundreds (thousands?) of brachs I've collected, and I have yet to find a preserved brachidium.  I'm going be bathing in acetic acid tonight thanks to @Nimravis (oglesby brachs)

Oh gosh now I'm feeling some pressure. I haven't done this in a year or so, so I might be remembering incorrectly. Tossing some in now to check :eyeroll:

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Just now, connorp said:

Oh gosh now I'm feeling some pressure. I haven't done this in a year or so, so I might be remembering incorrectly. Tossing some in now to check :eyeroll:

Make sure to post em here! I'm excited to see how they turn out :P

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4 hours ago, Peat Burns said:

Wait, what?!  I'm gonna get on that tonight.  I don't know how many hundreds (thousands?) of brachs I've collected, and I have yet to find a preserved brachidium.  I'm going be bathing in acetic acid tonight thanks to @Nimravis (oglesby brachs)

Okay I tried it and nothing happened, oh well.   
 

Before-

 

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After-

 

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This took about 4 hours in vinegar. And I do take back that these are silicified, I don't think they are.

 

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11 hours ago, connorp said:

This took about 4 hours in vinegar. And I do take back that these are silicified, I don't think they are.

 

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I am going to re-due and leave them overnight.

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Look for the broken reddish silicified Compositas that occur in the Naco Fm. near Payson. When cleaned in HCl the brachidium are incredible.

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My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned.   

See my Arizona Paleontology Guide    link  The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere.       

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1 hour ago, Nimravis said:

Okay I tried it and nothing happened, oh well. 


 

1 hour ago, connorp said:

This took about 4 hours in vinegar. And I do take back that these are silicified, I don't think they are.

 

14 minutes ago, Nimravis said:

I am going to re-due and leave them overnight.

I'm going to use my aquarium fish disease philosophy: "cure it or kill it"  and use whatever acid strength necessary to get results:o

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10 hours ago, DPS Ammonite said:

Look for the broken reddish silicified Compositas that occur in the Naco Fm. near Payson. When cleaned in HCl the brachidium are incredible.

2AD98BA9-63DE-4FFF-B7E8-FC9C190736C5.jpeg  C5FF1CFF-5601-48D4-9FD0-8EE904C244CC.jpeg

:default_faint:

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Sometimes the silicified broken Naco Fm. brachiopods hold other treasures.

C2E93743-4BFE-49FC-8E8F-50287641AC8B.jpeg

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My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned.   

See my Arizona Paleontology Guide    link  The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere.       

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10 hours ago, DPS Ammonite said:

Look for the broken reddish silicified Compositas that occur in the Naco Fm. near Payson. When cleaned in HCl the brachidium are incredible.

2AD98BA9-63DE-4FFF-B7E8-FC9C190736C5.jpeg

C5FF1CFF-5601-48D4-9FD0-8EE904C244CC.jpeg 976935E1-D3A4-4B35-992C-13987CA3665D.jpeg

Wow those are stunning! The red coloration just adds to the beauty. 
You said near Payson, were these collected at the “Paleo Site” near the Kohls Ranch exit?

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10 minutes ago, gieserguy said:

Wow those are stunning! The red coloration just adds to the beauty. 
You said near Payson, were these collected at the “Paleo Site” near the Kohls Ranch exit?

I have not found any at the Paleo site; those are mostly not silicified. The silicified brachiopods occur in isolated spots in the lower Naco Fm. from Pine east to the Apache Reservation. A friend found some of these near Christopher Creek.

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My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned.   

See my Arizona Paleontology Guide    link  The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere.       

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Here are the results that I thought would happen by leaving them over night- destroyed 1 ok and 2 very nice Compositas from Olgesby, Illinois.

 

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