Identifying Dinosaurs teeth

[Abyss]

Ok I know I'm not even in the same league as most of you here as to your knowledge of fossils etc....

Standing outside in the rain looking through the window .....

Though I know there's no stupid questions !

 

I really have some questions about how people can identify a dinosaur's tooth as to which species & not confusing them for another species, be it adult vs juvenile dinosaurs.

 

- Aside from riping the tooth out from a skull - where's your proof it was THIS species ?

- Then it brings up, why would you take a tooth out of a skull section, which if left the tooth in skull section would bring more $$$$

- Also brings up the tooth root issue, the root is a soft membrane. How did this root & tooth survive but not the skull jaw section ? I know stranger things can happen.

- There's a lot of teeth for sale but not a lot skull/ jaw sections....why is that ?

- Is it possible people mistake a juvenile tooth of this species for a adult tooth of this species,  or mistake this adult tooth for a juvenile tooth of this species that's of another species ?

- Seems like only certain species of teeth are up for sale, ok well what happened to all the other dinosaur species......they no longer had teeth or what ? is it name the tooth that brings $$$

- thousands of dinosaurs if not maybe a million, yet only handful of species are up for sale normally......makes me wonder.....

 

In short where's the proof that tooth is from that species, & please explain to me why there's a tooth & root but no skull/ jaw section !

[Runner64]

22 minutes ago, Abyss said:

- Aside from riping the tooth out from a skull - where's your proof it was THIS species ?

- Is it possible people mistake a juvenile tooth of this species for a adult tooth of this species,  or mistake this adult tooth for a juvenile tooth of this species that's of another species ?

I will answer these two questions together.  A lot of identification is an educated guess I suppose.  A lot of dealers identify based on what is described and at that sometimes are wrong (although it appears oftentimes they are wrong).  Hadrosaurs, ceratopsians, pachysephalosaurs are impossible to ID.  Too many of the family found in a location and ID with a single tooth is impossible.  Would need associated bones to make a definitive ID.  Theropods, on the otherhand, are a lot more complex.  An in-depth analysis is needed and a visual ID based on photos is close to impossible.  Even most times, a theropod tooth cannot be assigned an ID.  Perhaps it may aid my explanation if you had an example that you had in mind?

[fossilsonwheels]

I can explain a little of this but I’ll let more knowledgeable people give you more details. 

 

Dinosaurs had the ability to shed and replace teeth as they wore down. Sharks do this as well. You do not need to find a jaw and extract teeth since the Dino’s regularly shed teeth anyway. Also, fossilization often happens in ways that may naturally separate teeth from jaw. You might only find bits and pieces of a skull but may find intact teeth. It is pretty rare to find skull and jaw fossils so a lot of those will end up museums or institutions for study as well.z?

 

When you see limited species available for sale, much of that to do with the availability of sites to collect fossils from plus laws in many countries that prohibit exports or public collection, etc. You are going to see more of those fossils that come from formations that can be collected like Hell Creek for example. 

[Runner64]

35 minutes ago, Abyss said:

Then it brings up, why would you take a tooth out of a skull section, which if left the tooth in skull section would bring more $$$$

Personally, I have never seen this tactic before .  However, that is not to say others have done it in the past unfortunately.

35 minutes ago, Abyss said:

- There's a lot of teeth for sale but not a lot skull/ jaw sections....why is that ?

My thoughts on this would be that a tooth is easier to sell for a dealer.  You can take a look at a tooth and go "yep that is a tooth".  Meanwhile, if you were to look at skull elements, ID and I suppose even visual appeal to more novice collectors may be lacking.

35 minutes ago, Abyss said:

- Seems like only certain species of teeth are up for sale, ok well what happened to all the other dinosaur species......they no longer had teeth or what ? is it name the tooth that brings $$$

- thousands of dinosaurs if not maybe a million, yet only handful of species are up for sale normally......makes me wonder.....

This is all about accessibility.  Lots of laws, regulations, and land ownership rights in place limiting the area that many can go collect.  Also, many locations are not fossilferous (east coast US dinosaurs).  If you were to go look on our favorite auction site, the most common teeth sold are from "Spinosaurus", "Carchardontosaurus", and "Triceratops".  They come from readily available locations where finding fossils is much easier and acquiring them is much easier.  Occasionally some rare oddities pop up like Suchomimus, Baryonyx, Siamosaurus, etc., etc. but these were collected many many years ago prior to bans and come from old collections.

[Abyss]

28 minutes ago, fossilsonwheels said:

 

Dinosaurs had the ability to shed and replace teeth as they wore down. Sharks do this as well. You do not need to find a jaw and extract teeth since the Dino’s regularly shed teeth anyway. 

 

Is this true ? you  have proof of this they can shed teeth ?

I did not know this, I thought Dinosaurs grew teeth just like other mammals since 1 row of teeth.

Then please explain to me why their teeth/jaw is set up the way it is, like all other species of animals (including humans) that don't shed teeth. Aside from juvenile to adult tooth sheds.

 

Just because a modern day reptile does something doesn't mean a prehistoric reptile did it. Let alone they say dinosaurs had feathers, which there's some proof coming of this.

But never heard of proof of dinosaurs shedding teeth like sharks, please fill me in on this if true.

[RuMert]

Anyway, isolated teeth are much more numerous than jaw sections when found (btw the jaw sections are often toothless). It's true with marine reptiles as well.

[msantix]

Here is a recent paper about Dinosaurs (such as Majungasaurus) shedding teeth rapidly...https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0224734

[fossilsonwheels]

Yes it is true. The proof lies in the fossils. Numerous skulls and jaws have been found  that show this feature. There are many examples here on the forum of jaws that show unerupted replacement teeth. 

 

I am sure the forum has people that can better explain the mechanisms for it and the reasons for it. 

 

And there is quite a bit of fossil evidence that shows many dinosaurs had feathers now too. 

[dinosaur man]

One reason you can identify dinosaur teeth, is there tooth morphology here is the newest paper on dinosaur teeth morphology hope it helps: https://doi.org/10.26879/820

And there’s less skull material for sale because of how easily the skull material wethers or erodes away. Since enamel is harder then bone, the teeth will be harder to erode and weather, so teeth are more common then bone. Sometimes people mistake juvenile teeth for adults, like look at Aublysodon. And a lot of places in the world, only Palaeontologist are aloud, so it’s much harder to get teeth from there. 

[Masp]

@Abyss This is regarding knowing if a tooth is indeed dinosaur. If you want a simple answer, certain teeth you find associated with jaws and bones of these dinosaurs are not like any other teeth you find in other animals today. Some collectors on this forum own dinosaur jaw sections with some teeth still in place, and they match the scientific papers to which they were identified etc . Once you learn more of the history and how paleontology works,  you’ll see that it all makes sense. 

[Masp]

Here are some examples from my own collection. We know they are a certain family of dinosaur because skeletons with these teeth have been found already, or cousin species in other locations have been found from a similar age. We know that these are dinosaur and family type for that matter. The only downside is we cannot assign these isolated teeth to a specific dinosaur because several with these identical teeth existed in the same fauna. With that being said, in a few cases there are exceptions. 

[Troodon]

Feel free to check the Dinosaur guides in this Topic

 

 

[PaleoNoel]

On your question about tooth replacement, here is a Troodontid maxilla belonging to @troodon, you can see the teeth coming in to replace the current ones.

[PaleoNoel]

And for rooted teeth, those occur when the animal dies and the jaw erodes away, leaving the teeth still in their roots rather than being shed.

I have a rooted Paronychodon tooth, which is actually a tooth taxon- a genus given to an animal with distinctive and identifiable tooth morphology, but no definitive skeletal remains. Some believe it may even be a pterosaur.

[FossilDAWG]

On 2/4/2020 at 1:24 PM, PaleoNoel said:

On your question about tooth replacement, here is a Troodontid maxilla belonging to @troodon, you can see the teeth coming in to replace the current ones.

That is one sweet specimen!

Don

[Ruger9a]

XRAYs.…  This is a sign of a real professional.  No wonder it takes me so long to identify some of my fossils.  My "xray test" consist of holding it up to a bright light...  LOL   

[Troodon]

37 minutes ago, FossilDAWG said:

That is one sweet specimen!

Don

Thanks and I agree 

 

23 minutes ago, Ruger9a said:

XRAYs.…  This is a sign of a real professional.  No wonder it takes me so long to identify some of my fossils.  My "xray test" consist of holding it up to a bright light...  LOL   

Ha ha, UV lights also work great, but have to thank real professionals like the ROM for that Xray image