I won a keichousaurus at an online auction, is it real?

[DawnOfADream]

Short story: I won this on an online auction for a surprisingly low amount, which seems a bit too good to be true. Can you please let me know what you think of the specimen?

 

Long story: My brother has wanted a keichousaurus but is too bloody stingy to buy one himself, so I compulsively bidded on one at an online auction. I won it for not a lot of money and may have a fake keich for my stingy brother. I guess he'd be proud of me for saving money on it (assuming it's real) . 
 

[Pterygotus]

Looks real, it’s just not been prepared to expose the bones much.  Some more pictures would help though.

[DawnOfADream]

2 minutes ago, Pterygotus said:

Looks real, it’s just not been prepared to expose the bones much.  Some more pictures would help though.

Thanks @Pterygotus

I'll post more pictures when it eventually arrives! Unfortunately the auction house doesn't have any better images.

[Fossildude19]

35 minutes ago, DawnOfADream said:

Thanks @Pterygotus

I'll post more pictures when it eventually arrives! Unfortunately the auction house doesn't have any better images.

I don't think this is a genuine fossil.    The matrix looks totally wrong. 

Much lighter in color than any Keichousaur matrix I have seen. 

The morphology is wrong on the hind legs. 

It just doesn't look right to me.  

I hope I am wrong. 

[DawnOfADream]

37 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

I don't think this is a genuine fossil.    The matrix looks totally wrong. 

Much lighter in color than any Keichousaur matrix I have seen. 

The morphology is wrong on the hind legs. 

It just doesn't look right to me.  

I hope I am wrong. 

@Fossildude19

Thanks for your insight!

I thought it looked a little odd! If it's fake I don't mind, my brother won't mind either. I'll play around with it and take some photos when it arrives so you guys can have a better look at it.

[FrozenFlame]

At first glance, it looks like it hasn't been prepped to what we normally see, and as per @Fossildude19 comment, the matrix is quite a lot lighter than what I normally see for keichousarus fossils, so that's one thing that stands out. 

 

Please keep us updated when it arrives though!

[DawnOfADream]

2 minutes ago, FrozenFlame said:

At first glance, it looks like it hasn't been prepped to what we normally see, and as per @Fossildude19 comment, the matrix is quite a lot lighter than what I normally see for keichousarus fossils, so that's one thing that stands out. 

 

Please keep us updated when it arrives though!

@FrozenFlame

Thanks for your insight! I'll be sure to keep you all updated soon!

[Randyw]

It looks like fakes that I used to see floating around from time to time but I can’t be sure just from the pictures so I’m on the fence. 50/50 either way but I’m concerned. Hope it’s real for you though!

[Bobby Rico]

Sadly I am with Tim it does not look genuine . The matrix should  look more like slate in colour and not so sanding , 

I think it wonderful you looking out for your brother.  

[snolly50]

It is impossible to accurately judge from the provided photos; although I have a feeling it may be "real." Upon arrival, your best tool will be magnification and perhaps some minor exploration with a needle (i.e. Is there matrix obscured bone?). Good luck, have fun. 

[DawnOfADream]

36 minutes ago, Bobby Rico said:

Sadly I am with Tim it does not look genuine . The matrix looks more like slate in colour and not so sanding , 

I think it wonderful you looking out for your brother.  

@Bobby Rico

Cheers mate

[DawnOfADream]

34 minutes ago, snolly50 said:

It is impossible to accurately judge from the provided photos; although I have a feeling it may be "real." Upon arrival, your best tool will be magnification and perhaps some minor exploration with a needle (i.e. Is there matrix obscured bone?). Good luck, have fun. 

@snolly50

Thanks mate, I'll give that needle exploration a try and see how I go!

[Crazyhen]

I think it is a fake.  First, the typical matrix for Keichosaurus is much darker in colour (though there are the more rarely found specimens in lighter, reddish/yellowish matrix from Luoping, Guizhou, called colourful plate by the local).  Second, the skeleton does not look right.

[Bguild]

+1 for this being a fake unfortunately. The bones in the legs, neck and tail look wrong. Keep us posted!

[snolly50]

4 hours ago, snolly50 said:

I have a feeling it may be "real."

I acknowledge that most responding (all clever, experienced folk) opine the piece is not authentic. That may certainly be the case. It does not have the typical appearance. The light matrix has been mentioned. From the photos it looks 2D, unlike the acid or mechanical prep pieces commonly encountered. So, that is also a distinction. If it is a forgery, then painting or somehow applying (printing?) the image to the matrix is the only method I can fathom to accomplish this. Since you have already purchased the piece (for small $) then you can have fun sleuthing any mischief. If it is simply painted on, this will be easily detected under sufficient magnification. The main reason I accept the possibility that it may be an unprepped, split-out fossil; is the nature of the visible "bone." That is , it would take an imaginative (and skilled) artist/forger to choose to depict just the hint of bones in some areas. It is subtly done, if it is indeed painted. That is, if painted; why did they choose just to hint at some bones, not depict them fully. That is, the piece as is, appears incomplete. Many fakes strive to be "complete" and therefore more valuable.

 

Anyway, if the piece stands up to magnification without being exposed as ersatz, dig a little with a needle. Needlework is not a good method for prepping such a piece; but a small bit of digging, while marring a tiny area; should serve to demonstrate, if bone is present under the matrix. That is, does a visible rib or other major bone continue on as it should. Please report your experience when the slab arrives. It may prove to be a nice exercise in spotting dubious material. Good luck, have fun.     

[DawnOfADream]

1 hour ago, snolly50 said:

I acknowledge that most responding (all clever, experienced folk) opine the piece is not authentic. That may certainly be the case. It does not have the typical appearance. The light matrix has been mentioned. From the photos it looks 2D, unlike the acid or mechanical prep pieces commonly encountered. So, that is also a distinction. If it is a forgery, then painting or somehow applying (printing?) the image to the matrix is the only method I can fathom to accomplish this. Since you have already purchased the piece (for small $) then you can have fun sleuthing any mischief. If it is simply painted on, this will be easily detected under sufficient magnification. The main reason I accept the possibility that it may be an unprepped, split-out fossil; is the nature of the visible "bone." That is , it would take an imaginative (and skilled) artist/forger to choose to depict just the hint of bones in some areas. It is subtly done, if it is indeed painted. That is, if painted; why did they choose just to hint at some bones, not depict them fully. That is, the piece as is, appears incomplete. Many fakes strive to be "complete" and therefore more valuable.

 

Anyway, if the piece stands up to magnification without being exposed as ersatz, dig a little with a needle. Needlework is not a good method for prepping such a piece; but a small bit of digging, while marring a tiny area; should serve to demonstrate, if bone is present under the matrix. That is, does a visible rib or other major bone continue on as it should. Please report your experience when the slab arrives. It may prove to be a nice exercise in spotting dubious material. Good luck, have fun.     

@snolly50

You're giving me hope! Unrelated to the fossil, but I just want to say that you are very articulate in your comments.

[RJB]

  It looks very much like the 'critter' has been applied with some kind of material and then washed with a fake matrix to help it look real?  To me it doesnt look right at all.  Good luck

 

RB

[Ptychodus04]

I’m in the possibly real but unprepared camp. There are areas where the photo seems to indicate a darker material under the surface. As stated earlier, these photos are not high enough resolution to make a definitive assessment but, the darker areas might indicate bone exposed where the rest is covered with matrix. 
 

Also, I’ve seen so much micro-location variation in matrix coloration in every formation I’ve collected that I am disinclined to adjudicate it as a fake on that basis.

 

[DawnOfADream]

On 2/12/2020 at 10:00 AM, Ptychodus04 said:

I’m in the possibly real but unprepared camp. There are areas where the photo seems to indicate a darker material under the surface. As stated earlier, these photos are not high enough resolution to make a definitive assessment but, the darker areas might indicate bone exposed where the rest is covered with matrix. 
 

Also, I’ve seen so much micro-location variation in matrix coloration in every formation I’ve collected that I am disinclined to adjudicate it as a fake on that basis.

 

Wow thanks so much for taking the time to point all that out! I sure hope you're right!

[glu]

Not real sorry, matrix is wrong and unprepared speciments don't look like that

[Randyw]

When is it supposed to arrive? Looking forward to finding out the answer to this one!

[DawnOfADream]

1 hour ago, Randyw said:

When is it supposed to arrive? Looking forward to finding out the answer to this one!

@Randyw

It was only recently processed through US customs (I'm in Aus) so I have to assume about another week at least. I'll be sure to notify you all when I receive it!

 

[aplomado]

I've seen pics of fake Chinese fossils with that exact sort of "matrix".  I looks like it has some sort of paint wash over it to obscure the details.

[DawnOfADream]

@FrozenFlame

@Randyw

@Ptychodus04

@snolly50

The specimen finally arrived today and looks pretty promising. The fossil appears to have a light plaster coating around it that is easily removed from the matrix. Not sure how common that is, and the seller didn't mention why it was done.

I have some photos below showing the exposed bones and areas of plaster (?) that I removed to expose more bone.

Let me know what you all think! And thanks again for your previous insights and opinions.

 

Exposed bones + back view

 

 

 

I picked away at some of the plaster (?) here which thankfully revealed more bone.

 

[Huntonia]

Hmm, that would certainly be odd. I can't think of any reason to coat a genuine fossil in a plaster like that, the fact that the seller won't acknowledge it is a bad sign as well. I would suggest heating a pin over a flame and touching it to the bone. If nothing happens it's a fossil, if the pin melts through it it's fake. My best guess would be that artificial bones were made of some sort of plastic and then some type of adhesive or solvent, what you call plaster, was used to attach the psuedo-fossil to real matrix and the excess serves to shroud the 'bones' to help hide their lack of authenticity.