Crazy glue or epoxy?

[Wxman]

Hi all. I was hoping to find a pinned set of notes on when and how to use the various glues available for strengthening weak pieces, or repairing fractured ones; but there doesn't seem to be one. Can anyone point out a great thread, or chime in here on what you use and why you choose it in a given situation?

Thanks. 

[grandpa]

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/forum/170-fossil-preparation/

[hadrosauridae]

It seems to be one of those things that is more about personal preference than a strict rule of ITTT.  There are many levels of glue strengths depending on WHAT you are repairing.  

 

Personally, I like a super thin CA for repairs of small fossils. Just be careful, dont glue the fossil to your hand unless its a really cool fossil.

[Bobby Rico]

It really depends on what your glueing. Sometimes a job would need a thin super to seep into the cracks but other times a thick super glue is better so it does not run. Don’t use PVA or them expanding glues. I keep a few different glues and acetone handy. As for strengths something I learnt here is to clamp a join this really helps make a strong repair. There are some incredible skill members here that can restore a fossil from bits to it’s glory. Also as grandpa indicated there are plenty of useful tip on the forum . If you need more advice on a job just ask and your get it.  
 

cheers Bobby 

[Randyw]

I use multiple super glues depending on what I’m working on. Everything from super thin to thick gel super glue. It all depends on the piece you’re working on. And quite often I’ll use multiple types on the same fossil.

[FossilNerd]

I think, as the others have said, it’s situational as to when to use what. It’s also a personal preference in many situations. You will find widely varying opinions on the subject, so it’s hard to make a general guide.
 

Here are a couple of links that you might find useful about adhesives that museums use in fossil preparation and conservation. Most of these sites also have links to other resources on them. 

From the American Museum of Natural History. Their preparation website is a good resource in general, but here is the section on adhesives.

http://preparation.paleo.amnh.org/47/adhesives-and-consolidants

From the U.S. National Park Service.

https://www.nps.gov/pefo/learn/nature/adhesives-for-fossil-preparation.htm

This is a general fossil prep website from the Florida Museum, but it has a section about adhesives.

 https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/vertpaleo/amateur-collector/preparation/

 

 

 

 

[Ptychodus04]

I tried to attach the Goldberg, Davidson 2014 SVP poster but it exceeded the size limit. They like Paraloid B72 as a general use adhesive, cyanoacrylate for small specimens, and Devcon 2 ton epoxy for large specimens. I tend to agree.

[hadrosauridae]

6 hours ago, FossilNerd said:

......

From the American Museum of Natural History. Their preparation website is a good resource in general, but here is the section on adhesives.

http://preparation.paleo.amnh.org/47/adhesives-and-consolidants

From the U.S. National Park Service.

https://www.nps.gov/pefo/learn/nature/adhesives-for-fossil-preparation.htm

This is a general fossil prep website from the Florida Museum, but it has a section about adhesives.

 https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/vertpaleo/amateur-collector/preparation/

 

 

Excellent links, I have read all those in my past forays into googling for answers.

[Wxman]

3 hours ago, Ptychodus04 said:

I tried to attach the Goldberg, Davidson 2014 SVP poster but it exceeded the size limit. They like Paraloid B72 as a general use adhesive, cyanoacrylate for small specimens, and Devcon 2 ton epoxy for large specimens. I tend to agree.

That is awesome. Thank you all so much for your answers. As a newbie I had never even heard of many of these. I'm Iove this forum. You folks are the best!

[Wxman]

7 hours ago, FossilNerd said:

I think, as the others have said, it’s situational as to when to use what. It’s also a personal preference in many situations. You will find widely varying opinions on the subject, so it’s hard to make a general guide.
 

Here are a couple of links that you might find useful about adhesives that museums use in fossil preparation and conservation. Most of these sites also have links to other resources on them. 

From the American Museum of Natural History. Their preparation website is a good resource in general, but here is the section on adhesives.

http://preparation.paleo.amnh.org/47/adhesives-and-consolidants

From the U.S. National Park Service.

https://www.nps.gov/pefo/learn/nature/adhesives-for-fossil-preparation.htm

This is a general fossil prep website from the Florida Museum, but it has a section about adhesives.

 https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/vertpaleo/amateur-collector/preparation/

 

Great links. Thanks so much!

 

 

 

[Ash]

I use superglue for in field joins on small breaks, as well as for minor consolidating (recent example is the iliums of the pelvis we just prepped are riddled with cracks, I put super glue into the cracks). On joins or larger broken pieces I use areldite (15min epoxy although some here don’t like it and prefer longer cure times for better strength) and then Paraloid B72 as a general consolidant after everything is already glued. I figure the paraloid strengthens any of the other glues joins anyway so some degradation of the other glues won’t be an issue.

[Wxman]

1 hour ago, Ash said:

 and then Paraloid B72 as a general consolidant after everything is already glued. I figure the paraloid strengthens any of the other glues joins anyway so some degradation of the other glues won’t be an issue.

@Ash Thanks. Do you know of any good YouTube sites etc where the paraloid is used as a general consolidant? I have trouble picturing how that would be applied...

[Ash]

Dissolved relatively thin in acetone for me, somewhere between 5-10% (never bother measuring it personally). I go by volume rather than weight.

 

Use a paintbrush to “paint” It on, or a plastic dropper/pipette thing for drizzling over particularly porous/spongy bone.

 

Ive heard you can mix it up thiiicckk into sort of a gel and use that as a glue. Haven’t tried it yet, may have to give it a go.

[Ptychodus04]

6 hours ago, Wxman said:

@Ash Thanks. Do you know of any good YouTube sites etc where the paraloid is used as a general consolidant? I have trouble picturing how that would be applied...

I like a thinner variety than @ash for general consolidation. I mix my Paraloid B72 at a ratio of 1 part Paraloid to 50 parts acetone by weight (approximate values are sufficient. I then will apply it in different ways depending on the need. For small specimens or small areas of consolidation during prep, I use the smallest artist paintbrush I can find. For larger applications, I brush it on with a 1" paintbrush. Always use natural fiber bristles so the acetone doesn't dissolve them. If the specimen needs significant consolidation and doesn't have glue joints, I submerge the entire piece in the solution. This is by far the best way to fully consolidate a specimen. But it has to survive the process. If your piece is glued together, the acetone in the solution will attack the glue joints.

[Wxman]

Gosh, I am such a newbie. Thanks for the willingness to explain. It is appreciated. I haven't even started my first prep yet but have some pieces to try and am collecting tools to begin. Just wanting to minimize the damage that I'm sure my first excercises will inflict on my lovely specimens. 

Ok. So I have done a bunch (several hours) of reading here and and have the following questions:

People use everything from OTS crazy glues and Duco cement, to special order Vinac, Butvar-76, and Paraloid B72 ( the latter 3 all come as plastic bead that dissolve in acetone to various consistencies for various applications?); people also use the above for coating finishes, while others use mineral oil (other better I haven't stumbled across yet?). I imagine you should know what your finish will be prior to selecting the glues used so that the joins are as inconspicuous as possible? Is an acetone based finish chosen with acetone adhesives because the two applications Will blend to invisibility?

Thanks again, in advance, for your time and advice. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Wxman
Clarification, typo

[Wxman]

@Ptychodus04  That Goldberg poster is awesome and answers many questions. I will hang it on the wall above my prep station. Thank you for pointing it out.

 

[jpc]

28 minutes ago, Wxman said:

? Is an acetone based finish chosen with acetone adhesives because the two applications Will blend to invisibility?

Thanks again, in advance, for your time and advice. 

The first thing an acetone based coating will do is dissolve other acetone based glues, so no.  

 

Why coat?  I am a purist and only coat things if they are threatening to decompose, which most fossils are not.  

[Wxman]

6 minutes ago, jpc said:

Why coat?  I am a purist and only coat things if they are threatening to decompose, which most fossils are not.  

Hmmm. Some of the reading I have done has stressed that most fossils are at risk of decomposing due to internal salts, oxides, different shrinkage rates, slowly drying etc, and that coating is recommended. I get the purist aspect of the natural look as well. 

Feel free to comment. I'm listening...

[Ptychodus04]

15 minutes ago, Wxman said:

Hmmm. Some of the reading I have done has stressed that most fossils are at risk of decomposing due to internal salts, oxides, different shrinkage rates, slowly drying etc, and that coating is recommended. I get the purist aspect of the natural look as well. 

Feel free to comment. I'm listening...

I’m in the other side of the topic. I feel most, if not all, fossil bones need stabilization. The issue of dealing with the sheen left behind by the plastic stabilizer is easily dealt with. Once fully stabilized/consolidated, the surface can be wiped with acetone to remove the plastic thus removing the sheen.

[Wxman]

@Ptychodus04 Thanks. I like to hear many perspectives. I have no experience at this point, and intend to play with various swatches and techniques in discreet areas to see what works best on different matrices etc. 

Is mineral oil only for small and stable specimens? Rarely used? It looks pretty shiny, does it fade with time?

[Ptychodus04]

23 minutes ago, Wxman said:

@Ptychodus04 Thanks. I like to hear many perspectives. I have no experience at this point, and intend to play with various swatches and techniques in discreet areas to see what works best on different matrices etc. 

Is mineral oil only for small and stable specimens? Rarely used? It looks pretty shiny, does it fade with time?

Mineral oil is often used to preserve specimens that have significant amounts of pyrite in them and are susceptible to pyrite decay. These specimens have to remain submerged in the mineral oils to my understanding. This is not a method that I have ever used. We've had extensive discussions on TFF regarding pyrite preservation so a search should pull up hours of reading fodder.

 

Simply put, less is more when it comes to preservation media. Paraloid B72 and Butvar B76/98 are readily available on the internet and are the most widely used materials due to their known stability over time and ease of reversibility. Here's my thought process on stabilizing fossils:

 

If they are dry, use Paraloid B72 to stabilize.

If they are wet, slowly dry them out (process described on several other threads) then use Paraloid B72. If they can't be safely dried, use Rhoplex per AMNH chart.

 

[Ash]

2 hours ago, jpc said:

The first thing an acetone based coating will do is dissolve other acetone based glues, so no.  

 

Why coat?  I am a purist and only coat things if they are threatening to decompose, which most fossils are not.  

 

This is true for us too, we don’t consolidate 99% of finds as they’re typically good and solid. Maybe a drop of superglue in any cracks that look like they could end up potentially threatening some day.

 

@Ptychodus04 to each their own on thicknesses, hey? As long as the end result is satisfactory and strong  My stuff always ends up shiny but I figure you can always brush with acetone and remove some later if it’s a bit thick. Better safe than sorry, hey?

Plus I don’t seem to have any issues with penetration in the thicker mix. And I don’t mind a shiny finish on some (although natural is best, agreed).

[Ptychodus04]

34 minutes ago, Ash said:

 

This is true for us too, we don’t consolidate 99% of finds as they’re typically good and solid. Maybe a drop of superglue in any cracks that look like they could end up potentially threatening some day.

 

@Ptychodus04 to each their own on thicknesses, hey? As long as the end result is satisfactory and strong  My stuff always ends up shiny but I figure you can always brush with acetone and remove some later if it’s a bit thick. Better safe than sorry, hey?

Plus I don’t seem to have any issues with penetration in the thicker mix. And I don’t mind a shiny finish on some (although natural is best, agreed).

I agree. I do use a thicker mix for Pleistocene bone as it usually is more porous than the older stuff. Strong is the key for sure.

[hadrosauridae]

Just wanted to say how much I am hating CA as a field consolidate agent right now    I've spent all evening with acetone, Q-tips and a dental scraper because of over-use to stabilize a highly fractured item.

[Wxman]

3 minutes ago, hadrosauridae said:

Just wanted to say how much I am hating CA as a field consolidate agent right now    I've spent all evening with acetone, Q-tips and a dental scraper because of over-use to stabilize a highly fractured item.

I'm curious. Are you saying this because the other adhesives dissolve better in acetone? I'm lacking experience to put this in context. 

Thanks