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NJ Unknown - fish Mouth plate ?


The Jersey Devil

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Hi everyone,

 

I have this strange fossil from the New Jersey Cretaceous. When I first found it, I thought it was a sponge. Now I am kind of confused about it. It has a lot of “buds” on it that are embedded on a bony(??) “base” that has striations (might be hard to see this in pictures). I am really hoping that it is a fish mouth plate. Another thing is that there appear to be more small “buds” emerging from the bony(??) “base.” 
 

I appreciate any input! Let me know if better pics are needed, I’ll try to make them sharper.

 

@non-remanié @Al Dente @MarcoSr @siteseer @Trevor @frankh8147 @Carl

 

 

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Edited by The Jersey Devil
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“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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7 minutes ago, JamieLynn said:

I think I know this one!! Drum fish mouth plate. But I might be wrong. See what the experts say! 


That would be great! But I think drum fish appeared more recently than the Cretaceous.

“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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No drum fish in the Cretaceous. Sorry. I believe it is some type of Pycnodontiforme mouth plate. Or at least part of one.

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image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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Just now, sixgill pete said:

No drum fish in the Cretaceous. Sorry. I believe it is some type of Pycnodontiforme mouth plate.


The only reported pycnodont that I’ve heard of from NJ was Anomoeodus phaseolus. Do you know what potential genus this could belong to? 

“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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Parabulla? 

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30 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

Parabulla? 


Doesn’t Paralbula have a layered pattern to the teeth?

“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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The "teeth" look metallic to me.   It doesn't look like bone, rather some sort of conglomerate.  The "bone" might be wood.  Definitely a strange one!

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---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen---

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14 minutes ago, hokietech96 said:

Your "buds" look in way better condition and more distinct than the pictures I found.  Very cool find!


That pic is off my website. Looks like this one might not even be a mouth plate at all.

“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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1 minute ago, The Jersey Devil said:


That pic is off my website. Looks like this one might not even be a mouth plate at all.

Haha.  I thought it was your website.  

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23 minutes ago, non-remanié said:

The "teeth" look metallic to me.   It doesn't look like bone, rather some sort of conglomerate.  The "bone" might be wood.  Definitely a strange one!


Aw man. I thought it was something cool. The “bone” and “tooth” texture looked odd but I was hoping it was something new.

 

Would an in person look help? I don’t want to chuck it just yet...

“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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23 minutes ago, non-remanié said:

The "teeth" look metallic to me.   It doesn't look like bone, rather some sort of conglomerate.  The "bone" might be wood.  Definitely a strange one!

I agree. There are a lot of large quartz sand grains on the bottom and sides.

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1 minute ago, Al Dente said:

I agree. There are a lot of large quartz sand grains on the bottom and sides.


What would the quartz grains indicate?

 

@non-remanié So basically the piece of fossil wood got some slag growing on it and some conglomerate stuck to the other side?

“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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This might be a Teredolites sp. trace fossil: clams burrows in wood. It is especially likely if most of the rock is mud, silt and sand. Clams burrowed into wood which were filled with sediment. The wood eroded away leaving the burrows.

 

Is the rock mostly sediment as apposed to tooth material?

 

The photos need to be more detailed to find diagnostic features. Look for parallel wood grain impressions on top of the bulbs and on their planar substrate. I think that I see slight parallel striations going direction of red arrow. If true then this is likely Teredolites.

 

See Teredolites clavatus from this paper. See photo E:

 

Leszczyński, Stanisław. (2010). Coniacian-?Santonian paralic sedimentation in the Rakowice Małe area of the North Sudetic Basin, SW Poland: sedimentary facies, ichnological record and palaeogeographical reconstruction of an evolving marine embayment. Annales Societatis Geologorum Poloniae. 8

 

 

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31 minutes ago, DPS Ammonite said:

This might be a Teredolites sp. trace fossil: clams burrows in wood. It is especially likely if most of the rock is mud, silt and sand. Clams burrowed into wood which were filled with sediment. The wood eroded away leaving the burrows.

 

Is the rock mostly sediment as apposed to tooth material?

 

The photos need to be more detailed to find diagnostic features. Look for parallel wood grain impressions on top of the bulbs and on their planar substrate. I think that I see slight parallel striations going direction of red arrow. If true then this is likely Teredolites.

 

See Teredolites clavatus from this paper. See photo E:

 

Leszczyński, Stanisław. (2010). Coniacian-?Santonian paralic sedimentation in the Rakowice Małe area of the North Sudetic Basin, SW Poland: sedimentary facies, ichnological record and palaeogeographical reconstruction of an evolving marine embayment. Annales Societatis Geologorum Poloniae. 8

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This possibility crossed my mind as well.  The elongated "teeth" do look very much like teredolites, but I really think its something like molten slag droplets embedded in a mostly disintegrated piece of wood.  An iron conglomerate formed around it capturing the coarse sand grains on the underneath.  

 

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---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen---

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18 hours ago, The Jersey Devil said:

What would the quartz grains indicate?

If these were teeth, I would expect them to be rooted in bone. The sand grains tell me it is lithified sediment and not bone. 

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Here are some more pictures:

 

 

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Edited by The Jersey Devil

“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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