Gotta start somewhere

[Wxman]

Hi. Total newbie here. But interested in what I see as I have been lurking this site for 5 years or so.  I have acquired some basic prep tools and want to practice a bit of matrix removal to develop a feel for the rock and tools before I start anything important (to me at least). I picked up a few rocks yesterday from the Nanaimo Formations, upper Cretaceous, Campanian the map says. It would be handy to know what I am looking at so I could Google some images and know what to look for as I uncover things. If anyone would care to identify a few things, I would be grateful. 

[hadrosauridae]

Wow, I cant even begin to guess at what you have there. I hope some can ID it, because frankly it looks freakin cool.  I'd start with you 8315 scribe.  Start VERY light, just barely touching the matrix.  Let the tool do the work.  Don't apply too much pressure and move slowly.  If you dont have a microscope, I would suggest at least a good lighted magnifier.  

 

good luck, I hope its something great.

[Wxman]

Here is one more.

 

[Wxman]

@hadrosauridae Thanks. I'm leaning towards plant, but I'm not sure. 

I do have a stereo scope, and have been scratching away with picks as I want to learn how rock feels. I should have a compressor setup, and try my new scribes within a week or so. Thanks for the tips. 

[Wxman]

Ok. One more. This one broke up when harvested. All specimens from the same formation. 

Thanks, in advance, for any assistance. 

[fifbrindacier]

Well, i don't see any feature recognizable, at least, for me except, maybe burrows or ichnofossils.

Maybe @GeschWhat or @Carl could help.

 

Cheers,

Sophie.

[Ludwigia]

And what, pray tell, do you wish to remove or expose from these rocks? It would certainly be a good start if you knew exactly what you are doing. I agree with Sophie on this. They look like burrows in mudstone concretions. I would leave the things as they are and look for something better to practice on.

[caldigger]

@Wrangellian this is your stomping grounds, any ideas on what we have here and would it be worth prepping into?

[Wxman]

5 hours ago, Ludwigia said:

 It would certainly be a good start if you knew exactly what you are doing. I agree with Sophie on this. They look like burrows in mudstone concretions. I would leave the things as they are and look for something better to practice on.

Better, how? I expect that I'm going to make many mistakes and destroy things. Would you consider these too good for that? Or are you implying that they aren't worthy of prep? 

[Mahnmut]

Hello Wxman,

I think the question is really what you want to achieve.

Preparation is mostly supposed to uncover formerly hidden structure, and the thing to practice is how to do so without destroying the structure.

If you just want to get a feeling for the rock, use a piece of matrix without structure for starters.

If your specimens are ichnofossils, meaning filled burrows or traces of animals, there is very probably nothing to uncover, but they are quite interesting pieces as they are that would only get damaged by removing material. The filling will often be very similar in consistency to the matrix

If on the other hand you have a piece of bone or shell partly covered in matrix, that is something you can enhance by prepping, and if you know what anatomy to expect beforehand, you know where to put your chisel.

 I cannot help with the ID, but have some hours or few days of patience the chances are good that someone on this forum may be able to tell you what you have there.

Sorry If I told you what you already know, you said total newbie.

Best Regards,

J

 

[Wxman]

@Mahnmut I have been gathering rocks of various hardness for exactly that reason; to practice. I only have 3 fossils really worth prepping so far, and have been advised not to attempt them until I have some experience, so as not to destroy them. I thought these may be "disposable" enough to start on, yet interesting enough so that I don't get discouraged just chipping away at empty rock. Thanks for pointing out the hardness similarity in the burrows/matrix. That makes sense. 

[Mahnmut]

Looking at your fotos again, it seems that whatever it is is somewhat harder than the matrix, being weathered out as it is.

I personally like that first piece, If it was mine I wouldn´t want to use it up for practice, but that is just an aesthetic statement.

Maybe making a small skulpture could be another way to learn your rock without getting bored. Paint a structure on the surface and try to keep it intact while removing the surrounding material.

Curious to find out what you have there.

Cheers,

J

[Ludwigia]

4 hours ago, Wxman said:

Better, how? I expect that I'm going to make many mistakes and destroy things. Would you consider these too good for that? Or are you implying that they aren't worthy of prep? 

Mahnmut said it all.

[Mark Kmiecik]

4 hours ago, Wxman said:

Better, how? I expect that I'm going to make many mistakes and destroy things. Would you consider these too good for that? Or are you implying that they aren't worthy of prep? 

There's actually less chance of making a mistake if the difference between the matrix and the fossil is distinct, and the fossil material is well preserved and well defined. In other words, the more obvious what the end product should be, the less chance of making a mistake. Start with fossils that are cheap, plentiful and obvious, so that should you slip you don't ruin a once-in-a-lifetime find. The type of fossil and preservation in the specimens you've collected and shown us is something you don't attempt without at least a couple of years of experience unless you're willing to take a chance. If you can find many more and even better where you found these then I say go for it.

[Wxman]

8 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

There's actually less chance of making a mistake if the difference between the matrix and the fossil is distinct, and the fossil material is well preserved and well defined. In other words, the more obvious what the end product should be, the less chance of making a mistake. Start with fossils that are cheap, plentiful and obvious, so that should you slip you don't ruin a once-in-a-lifetime find. The type of fossil and preservation in the specimens you've collected and shown us is something you don't attempt without at least a couple of years of experience unless you're willing to take a chance. If you can find many more and even better where you found these then I say go for it.

@Mark Kmiecik I found these in a single day, and left a number behind as my sample bag got too heavy. So cheap, plentiful and obvious fit the bill. As stated, I don't want to ruin a great fossil in learning so I thought I'd start here. But people are warning me away from even this level of prep it seems. 

I wish I knew what they were so the relative value as specimens was more clear to me. 

[Mark Kmiecik]

1 minute ago, Wxman said:

@Mark Kmiecik I found these in a single day, and left a number behind as my sample bag got too heavy. So cheap, plentiful and obvious fit the bill. As stated, I don't want to ruin a great fossil in learning so I thought I'd start here. But people are warning me away from even this level of prep it seems. 

I wish I knew what they were so the relative value as specimens was more clear to me. 

If there's a boatload to be had then go for it. Start with what appears to be the worst specimen, saving the best for last, as you will get better at it as you go. Just remember that patience and a gentle touch do less damage in the long run. Most prepped fossils have a mistake or two, minor chips and scratches. If you visit a museum near you and ask, you may be allowed to watch an experienced prepper at work. A good way to learn is to volunteer some time to help with prep at a museum.

[Wxman]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

If there's a boatload to be had then go for it. Start with what appears to be the worst specimen, saving the best for last, as you will get better at it as you go. Just remember that patience and a gentle touch do less damage in the long run. Most prepped fossils have a mistake or two, minor chips and scratches. If you visit a museum near you and ask, you may be allowed to watch an experienced prepper at work. A good way to learn is to volunteer some time to help with prep at a museum.

I intentionally collected some poor specimens. In fact it was my goal to find them as practice material. I just couldn't leave the nicer mysteries behind. Lol.

I will definitely try to be careful. 

The volunteer angle is a great one. I didn't know you could do that. There is also a commercial prep lab in town I have been meaning to visit that does tours etc. I should talk to them too. 

Thanks.

[Wrangellian]

I agree with Sophie, they look like burrows. In fact they look like the ones that come from a beach on Gabriola Island, I've got a drawer full of them, though I did not collect them myself. They are Campanian, too. Is that where you got them? There are concretionary masses all over the Nanaimo Gp that look sort of that way when broken open and weathered, as well, which could be the result of some burrowing or just a septarian kind of thing, or some combination of both? There are lots of oddities along the ichno/concretion spectrum that aren't readily identifiable - too many to collect.

Burrows (ichnofossils) usually do not need any prepping. If you're getting into prepping, I agree with the others here. (I'm not a prepper, yet - maybe someday - but what they say makes sense.) Start with chunks of rock, then common/partial/grotty fossils, and go to town. If in doubt about whether you've got something good or something throw-away, show us.

Speaking of town, where is the commercial prep lab you refer to? Not here in Duncan? As far as I know they are prepping at the RBCM now but I don't think they are doing it commercially, and there are people associated with the two museums up-Island too.

 

By the way, it is much harder to find fossils in the Campanian (other than at Hornby Island), so if you find anything that looks like an identifiable fossil in the Campanian, even if low quality, it could be more important to science than an equivalent fossil from the Haslam, so be careful of treating those cavalierly!

I once went on a collecting trip with Peter Ward and one of our members here, to Campanian rocks on Denman Island, and we weren't finding much, and I passed over something that looked like a grotty bit of Sphenoceramus, didn't think it would be useful, and then shortly thereafter Rick found it and gave it to Peter, and it was a big deal. Learned my lesson there! Of course Peter was looking not for display specimens but for anything that could be useful for stratigraphy, and Sheno's and ammonites are what they use around here for that.

[Wxman]

@Wrangellian

Yup. East shore Gabriola. 

That's why I'm posting these, to see if anyone sees anything of value. I don't want to ruin anything nice, but as the thread title says, you gotta start somewhere. It'll be more fun to have something to try to highlight, as opposed to just chipping at rock. I was thinking it was plant, and hoping I could find a photo to work towards. The symmetry and segmentation of the first and second photo sets seems pretty regular for random fracturing, and the tiny strands and reminded me of horsetail. See below. But if it's just burrowing....

 

The prep lab is https://www.dinolabinc.ca/

[Wrangellian]

I knew it, Gabriola. Am I good or what? 

They are definitely burrows. Fractures can happen at more or less regular intervals.

 

Wow, that seems like a going concern. Never know about that outfit.

 

It looks like they charge $40 per individual tour of the lab, but not sure if that needs to have a certain number of other people with you or if you can go alone and pick their brains. But it might be worth it.

I should point out they seem to be dino-oriented. Prepping dinos is probably quite different from our local shale fossils, which is again different from prepping limestone fossils, etc. I don't have much experience prepping, as I've said, and I don't know if you might get some insight into equipment setup by visiting them, but you might get just as much by asking questions here (for free), and learning as you go.

[fifbrindacier]

The presence of burrows mean something lived there or found its food there, so, you have chances to find something one day.

I think you could, as the title of your post says start somewhere, start to prep the less beautiful for you. The point is to test the matrix they're in before trying to prep the other pieces. Because if you  have a very hard matrix it would be useless to prep the other pieces.

I don't prep a lot but i did it on some pieces and, when i see your photos, i think that, for example, your first piece with parallel ichnofossils might win to be lightly cleaned,

[Carl]

On 2/18/2020 at 10:10 PM, fifbrindacier said:

Well, i don't see any feature recognizable, at least, for me except, maybe burrows or ichnofossils.

Maybe @GeschWhat or @Carl could help.

 

Cheers,

Sophie.

Could be a coprolite. I think it's more likely a burrow. Very hard to say.