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Bison or Bos? Whale tooth or other?


PODIGGER

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Three finds from yesterday that I am hoping to get a bit of help on.  The first is what I think is a bison metacarpel.  Or is it Bos?

 

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Next up is what I believe to be a whale tooth:

 

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Last is what I first thought of as whale or dolphin, but it seems to have an extreme glossy and smooth finish.  I then looked at a feline canine and thought this could also be a possible.

 

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Harry Pristis

Not bison metacarpal.  It's a cow metatarsal.

 

 

bison_bos_metatarsals_dorsal.JPG

bison_metacarpal.JPG

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2 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

Not bison metacarpal.  It's a cow metatarsal.

 

 

bison_bos_metatarsals_dorsal.JPG

bison_metacarpal.JPG

I agree. 

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  Thanks Harry and JarrodB .  Anybody have an insight on the possible whale teeth?

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Shellseeker
5 hours ago, PODIGGER said:

  Thanks Harry and JarrodB .  Anybody have an insight on the possible whale teeth?

 

I need you to provide much closer views of the two teeth.  Here is a peace river whale tooth:

 

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Note that banding..  they are growth rings.  If it is a whale tooth, it has them... Look at your first tooth and see if you can detect anything like them.

There are a lot of choices for 1+ inch canines in the Peace River...

 

On the 2nd tooth, a much closer view is also helpful.  My first thought based on shape was 'Dolphin"

 

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3 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

 

I need you to provide much closer views of the two teeth.  Here is a peace river whale tooth:

 

WhaleCrop1.JPG.57c7581f41cddb325344a07a7768ca19.JPG

 

Note that banding..  they are growth rings.  If it is a whale tooth, it has them... Look at your first tooth and see if you can detect anything like them.

There are a lot of choices for 1+ inch canines in the Peace River...

 

On the 2nd tooth, a much closer view is also helpful.  My first thought based on shape was 'Dolphin"

 

 

Is the tip of the tooth on your left (in the photo) have a tendency to flake apart or delaminate? I find shattered pieces that look like they could be a broken tip. I often wonder what they are and it makes sense.

 

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Shellseeker
1 hour ago, Bone Daddy said:

 

Is the tip of the tooth on your left (in the photo) have a tendency to flake apart or delaminate? I find shattered pieces that look like they could be a broken tip. I often wonder what they are and it makes sense.

 

Kudos to @Harry Pristis for this photo: I find whale teeth exactly like these in the Peace River, Florida.

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I believe that these whale teeth are covered by a layer of cementum, with the growth rings inside a layer of Dentin, and (sometimes, an enamel tip).  Both the Dentin and tip tend to de_laminate.

I also find shattered pieces (unfortunately).. Jack

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Thanks Jack.  I will get my photographer wife to take better lit close up photos and get them posted as soon as I can.  I don't see the growth rings on either.  The second one, you indicate may be dolphin, I too thought that was a strong possibility.  The feature that doesn't seem common with dolphin is how polished and glossy it actually is.

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Shellseeker

In this thread,  Harry is selling 2 Peace River canines (Raccoon and River Otter) that are about the same size of the one you are attempting to identify.  That is a little backup to my thought that there are a lot of 1.5 inch canine options....

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14 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

In this thread,  Harry is selling 2 Peace River canines (Raccoon and River Otter) that are about the same size of the one you are attempting to identify.  That is a little backup to my thought that there are a lot of 1.5 inch canine options....

 

Harry's collection is amazing. I could probably spend a couple of years just poking around in his cabinets and looking at stuff.

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Thanks Jack.  Makes me think it is the crown of something!  Was out all day on a photo trip with my resident photographer at Circle B.  Got her to agree to a quick stop at the river to check out that parking spot we talked about. Picked up 5 small shark teeth just walking in by the riverbank.

 

 I should be able to get the better pictures posted tomorrow to see if anyone can nail down what the above teeth are.

 

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My resident photographer was finally able to get me some close-ups on the possible whale/dolphin teeth.  The thinner one was very difficult due to size so the close ups are of small areas on this specimen. Hopefully, combined with the original photos above, someone will be able to make an ID.  Thanks!

 

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The thinner one:

 

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Shellseeker
On 3/10/2020 at 7:02 PM, PODIGGER said:

My resident photographer was finally able to get me some close-ups on the possible whale/dolphin teeth.  The thinner one was very difficult due to size so the close ups are of small areas on this specimen. Hopefully, combined with the original photos above, someone will be able to make an ID.  Thanks!

 

After staring at it for a while, I am pretty sure that I can not identify it. The yellow is the root/enamel differentiator, but I am not positive which is the root and which is the enamel. Because of the blue, I lean toward that section being the 'root'.  and that root is similar to some I have seen on marine mammals. I have no view on what the red lump is...

The enamel is recognizable as enamel, but nothing that allows identification. It is too small for whale, might be right sized dolphin, but no other features.

These type of finds tend to go into my "unknown" drawer..!!!

podiggerTooth.JPG.25d97970a34f3a9ad024b103ddeaba35.JPG

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Thanks Jack.  Looks like one I may need to run by Dr Hulbert.

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