Coprolite verification

[Ruger9a]

Good morning folks.  I purchased this box of coprolites many years ago under the description "Triassic carnivore fossil dinosaur coprolite, New Mexico".  Did I do good or did I get taken? 

[Coco]

Hi,

 

@GeschWhat

 

I think she needs close-up to identify them.

 

Coco

[Ruger9a]

Thanks Coco.  I'll take some close-up photos if she needs them but they will have to wait until the sun comes up, it's only 0520 here.  They are in my shop.

[Troodon]

@Carl @GeschWhat

 

They look to have the spiral shape of coprolites are there any inclusions visible?   Do you have a better locality where they were found, NM is pretty general.   Every coprolite ever sold is described coming from a dinosaur most all are probably not.  And with this group the seller indicated they were from carnivorous dinosaurs, ha ha, he must be very knowledgeable.  Lots of other larger bodied creatures roaming around the triassic of NM that would fit the size of these specimens like archosaurs and large reptiles like Postosuchus.

[Scylla]

12 minutes ago, Troodon said:

@Carl @GeschWhat

 

They look to have a spiral have the spiral shape of coprolites are there any inclusions visible?   Do you have a better locality where they were found, NM is pretty general.   Every coprolite ever sold is described coming from a dinosaur most all are probably not.  And with this group the seller indicated they were from carnivorous dinosaurs, ha ha, he must be very knowledgeable.  Lots of other larger bodied creatures roaming around the triassic of NM that would fit the size of these specimens like archosaurs and large reptiles like Postosuchus.

And phytosaurs

[Ruger9a]

44 minutes ago, Troodon said:

@Carl @GeschWhat

 

They look to have the spiral shape of coprolites are there any inclusions visible?   Do you have a better locality where they were found, NM is pretty general.   Every coprolite ever sold is described coming from a dinosaur most all are probably not.  And with this group the seller indicated they were from carnivorous dinosaurs, ha ha, he must be very knowledgeable.  Lots of other larger bodied creatures roaming around the triassic of NM that would fit the size of these specimens like archosaurs and large reptiles like Postosuchus.

Oh, I didn't put much faith in the "carnivorous" part of the description.  It seems like almost every coprolite listed on line uses some from of that description - to enhance their sales would be my guess.  On the locality, no.  When I asked for a specific location he said they came from several different places in NM over many different years.  Many were given to him by his father who used to "hunt for rocks".  Said he was moving to a smaller place and needed to get rid of his duplicates and bulk items (both minerals & these).  Yes there are some with inclusions.  After it warms up some I'll go to my shop and take some closeup photos.

[Tidgy's Dad]

I think they may be a mix of coprolites, concretions and possibly even burrow infillings. 

Best studied individually in detail rather than as a job lot, in my opinion. 

[dinodigger]

Looks like all shark coprolites, Permian possibly?

[GeschWhat]

You did good!!!

 

Those are very typical of the coprolites from the Bull Canyon Formation (Upper Triassic). Many will have a reddish siderite coating that makes them look like concretions. These were originally deposited in a floodplain. That is why many of them have that coating.  If you touch the tip of your tongue to the lighter colored areas, they will stick. 

 

If you at them under the microscope, you may see tiny fish scale inclusions. Inclusions (if present) are usually visible on broken surfaces. I have found some amazing inclusions in this type of coprolite. Congrats!

[Ruger9a]

Thank you Lori.  What a relief.  I will have to pass up the tongue test though, keep seeing images of my cats in my garden.  I have located three of them so far and will have to search for the rest of the box.  I know I put them in a "safe place" that would be easy to remember, but that was 10-12 years ago:-(   Meanwhile, I'll set up my microscope to see what "goodies" are included in these and post some photos later.  Thanks again.

[Ruger9a]

Dear Dutchess of Dookie, I am keeping my promise to you;-)   Below you will find microscope photos of the three specimens of coprolite.  I don't know what I should be looking for, so, maybe you can point me in the right direction.  Oh, you may notice a slight shine to them, it's because they felt kinda tacky so I applied a thin coat of water soluble wax to them.

[GeschWhat]

YIKES! You may want to try to remove the wax. It is important to never treat coprolites with anything. I don't know what the wax will do, but glue of any kind is a big no no. The reason they feel sticky when you touch them with wet fingers is because they are comprised of calcium phosphate (the same mineral that is in bone). Because they are very porous, putting anything on them can change the chemistry and may be hard to reverse. Usually, the fish scales and bone will appear shiny. With a coating, it is really hard to tell. This may be a scale or scale impression. Maybe repost the photos after removing the wax?

 

Here is link to a few of the more interesting Bull Canyon Formation coprolites in my collection. Excuse the website, it is a work in progress. It doesn't have the ability to zoom yet.

 

[Ruger9a]

5 hours ago, GeschWhat said:

YIKES! You may want to try to remove the wax. It is important to never treat coprolites with anything. I don't know what the wax will do, but glue of any kind is a big no no. The reason they feel sticky when you touch them with wet fingers is because they are comprised of calcium phosphate (the same mineral that is in bone). Because they are very porous, putting anything on them can change the chemistry and may be hard to reverse. Usually, the fish scales and bone will appear shiny. With a coating, it is really hard to tell. This may be a scale or scale impression. Maybe repost the photos after removing the wax?

 

Here is link to a few of the more interesting Bull Canyon Formation coprolites in my collection. Excuse the website, it is a work in progress. It doesn't have the ability to zoom yet.

 

Thanks Lori.  The wax is water soluble and can be removed easily.  It does not harm fossils and is used by the British Museums, but, I will do as you suggest and wash it off.  Your website is very informative, I've saved it to my favorites.  Will repost washed fossil.

[Carl]

I'm late to the game but I agree that they sure look like coprolites to me. Nice haul!