Monica Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Hi again! Over the weekend, I posted pictures of small fossils in a rock I found at Mimico Creek in Toronto, Ontario (Georgian Bay Formation, Upper Ordovician). I've created this new post just for the shiny black specimens that I found in the rock because a consensus wasn't reached regarding their identity. Each of the two specimens pictured below are 5mm long. My question is: are these items scolecodonts or conodonts? I was leaning towards scolecodonts but I wanted to see what others have to say... Thanks once again! Monica 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connorp Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I would agree with scolecodont. They look thicker than conodont elements I’ve seen, although this isn’t super diagnostic. Hopefully someone has a more scientific explanation. Nice finds! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Guess you've already seen this, Monica? http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/76863-out-of-print-georgian-bay-formation-book-arrived/ Not that it's of immediate help. 3 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Guess you've already seen this, Monica? http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/76863-out-of-print-georgian-bay-formation-book-arrived/ Not that it's of immediate help. Well, actually, Adam, I think this does help! Not the Georgian Bay Formation book, but the response made by @doushantuo in the link you provided - he included pictures of Ontario Silurian scolecodont jaws that were the focus of a study by Eriksson in 2015, and mine look like those!!! So, I think it's probably safe to say that I found scolecodont jaws and not conodonts. (I must have missed this the first time you posted the link - oops!!!) Thanks! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 51 minutes ago, connorp said: I would agree with scolecodont. They look thicker than conodont elements I’ve seen, although this isn’t super diagnostic. Hopefully someone has a more scientific explanation. Nice finds! Thanks for chiming in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 And, looking at the following website: http://drydredgers.org/scolec2.htm, I think the little jaw in the lower righthand corner of the photo above belongs to the genus Oenonites. Edit: The little jaw in the upper lefthand corner of the photo above might also belong to the genus Oenonites! The photos below are the left and right jaws of Kettnerites (Kettnerites) abrahami abrahami - they look different but are from the same species, so perhaps that's also the case with my specimens pictured above? (photos from http://www.rhyniechert.com/gotlandscolecodonts.html) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieLynn Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 absolutely no help with ID but now I want to go watch Tremors (which is in my Netflix queue). 3 www.fossil-quest.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, JamieLynn said: absolutely no help with ID but now I want to go watch Tremors (which is in my Netflix queue). I remember that movie - Kevin Bacon was in it, right? It was scary to me when I watched it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Monica said: And, looking at the following website: http://drydredgers.org/scolec2.htm I think the little jaw in the lower righthand corner of the photo above belongs to the genus Oenonites sp. Hmmm. I looked at this before, but the genus is really tiny. From Fossiilid, the scale bar is 0.1 mm 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Hmmm. I looked at this before, but the genus is really tiny. From Fossiilid, the scale bar is 0.1 mm Here's another website to check out: https://louisvillefossils.blogspot.com/2009/05/ordovician-worm-oenonites-scolecodont.html?m=1. The fossil pictured looks very much like my specimens, and apparently it's also the same length (5mm), so perhaps they're just on the large side? (That being said, I have no idea if the specimen pictured on this webpage is a scolecodont, either - it just seems that that's the most likely candidate.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 That is a scolecodont , they are usually black, and are composed of chitin, which will not dissolve in either mild acids or bases. The Ordovician conodonts are usually amber or milky in color and are simple in shape and are composed of apatite . Conodonts tend to be smaller than scolecodonts. 5 "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Here is the paper : https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/39014447#page/446/mode/1up What do you think, Monica? Thanks, @Herb 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 13 hours ago, Herb said: That is a scolecodont , they are usually black. The Ordovician conodonts are usually amber or milky in color and are simple in shape Thanks, Herb! 13 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Here is the paper : https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/39014447#page/446/mode/1up What do you think, Monica? Thanks, @Herb Looks good, Adam! The paper even describes Enonites which seems like a good match for at least my lower righthand jaw (although I think is now referred to as Oenonites). Thanks, Adam! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Monica said: Thanks, Herb! Thanks, Adam! Better use : 2 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I don’t know what they are but I think those are great looking specimens of whatever they are! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 40 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Bette use : I figured that since we're many, many kilometres away from each other, it might be okay for high fives and fist bumps. But you're right. It should've been an elbow bump. So sorry about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, Randyw said: I don’t know what they are but I think those are great looking specimens of whatever they are! Thanks, Randy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I hope you’re entering it into the fossil of the month competition! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Randyw said: I hope you’re entering it into the fossil of the month competition! Good point! 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Randyw said: I hope you’re entering it into the fossil of the month competition! 2 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Good point! I might just do that - thanks for the support, guys! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 M.Ordovician polycheta from Cincinnati.pdf 3 "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Ord. scolecodonts.pdf 2 "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 I'd urge everyone to read: or: Conodont Color Alteration an Index to Organic Metamorphism By ANITA G. EPSTEIN, JACK B. EPSTEIN, and LEONARD D. HARRIS (about 30 MB) US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY PROFESS I ONAL PAPER 995 or: directly above is from the Epstein/Harris paper: CAI,Vitrinite reflectance,graptolite periderm and palynomorph maturation are all used to assess thermal maturity,which is of course an important parameter in hydrocarbon exploration 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 4 "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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