Ramo Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I found these two teeth in the Codell Sandstone of Kansas, And I wasn't sure if they were broken from a larger tooth, or if this was all of them. I saw some whale shark teeth on another thread, and I thought these looked kind of like them. I have never heard of whale shark teeth being found in this layer. Is it possible that is what these are? For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 They definately look like whale shark teeth to me. What age is the area they were found in? There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 It is a Cretaceous deposit, and I can't find any reference to whale sharks in Cretaceous deposits. If these are whale shark, then they would be the first record of them from this time. The Codell is older than the Chalk, and there has never been any whale shark teeth found in the chalk that I know of. For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I found these two teeth in the Codell Sandstone of Kansas, And I wasn't sure if they were broken from a larger tooth, or if this was all of them. I saw some whale shark teeth on another thread, and I thought these looked kind of like them. I have never heard of whale shark teeth being found in this layer. Is it possible that is what these are? They look like sawfish rostral denticles to me...? http://oceansofkansas.com/sharks/Kansas/bhptyt2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Since the oldest Whale Sharks were from the Eocene, I'd have to agree with Xiphactinus on this one. The resemblance is almost uncanny. I guess you'd have to have them in hand to see some differences. There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N.AL.hunter Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I do not claim to be an expert in anything,but to my eyes the fossils in question do not match the fossils from the sawfish. They are very different in the pictures. Not saying they are not from a sawfish, just that they look too different for me to say they are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N.AL.hunter Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 see here: http://www.blackriverfossils.org/SharkTeet...98/Default.aspx http://www.lowcountrygeologic.com/FossilSh...13/Default.aspx http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/Fish/Gallery/Desc...whaleshark.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 What about a Megamouth Shark Megachasma sp. possibly comanchensis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest N.AL.hunter Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I agree Anson, that looks a lot more like it than the sawfish ones. http://www.elasmo.com/frameMe.html?file=ge...genera-alt.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 If I had to guess, I would say they are Paraisurus cf. compressus sans root lobes, or extreme posteriors. They are similar to specimens I have seen in the past. Welton and Farrish give the timeframe of Albian through (possibly) Cenomanian. If you have their book look at page 108 (first publishing) and cover the root lobes of 2c and / or 5b and you will see something very like your specimens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I agree Anson, that looks a lot more like it than the sawfish ones.http://www.elasmo.com/frameMe.html?file=ge...genera-alt.html good find. It's the right time period too. New one on me. I'm striking out today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 Looks to me like you guys nailed it. Thanks!! For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I'm striking out today! You're not the only one X-man. I didn't know a Cretaceous Megamouth existed. Bowkill, does your tooth have the deep nutrient groove as shown in the picture on Elasmo.com? Looks like it's time for me to invest in more reference books There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 I e-mailed Mike Everhart these photos, and he said he wasn't sure. He refered me to these photos. These two teeth are eroded enough that I can't see a nutrient groove at all. http://www.oceansofkansas.com/sharks/Kansas/FptJohnlon.jpg http://www.oceansofkansas.com/sharks/Kansas/ke-shc01.jpg For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Both of those seem to have nutrient groves that are so deep they nearly touch the tooth crown. But the shape does very much favor the Johnlongia sp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 For those interested, Kenshu Shimada just described a new species of Megachasma from the Greenhorn Formation in the June 2007 Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology. Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vball Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I know this is an old thread but I found your tooth while trying to ID upper Cretaceous shark teeth from Texas. It was mentioned above by PaleoRon They were found in many locations in the seaway. Paraisurus compressus They are almost always missing the root lobes. Here is a full one from Russia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 I hadn't seen this thread before so I'm glad it was revived. I am leaning toward Johnlongia as well. I am also leaning against "Megachasma" comanchensis being an early megamouth though it resembles one. The problem is the time difference with comanchensis a Cenomanian age shark (around 95 million years ago) and the closest apparent descendant being known from the Early Miocene (around 22 million years ago). Even that Early Miocene undescribed form is still a rather questionable relative itself though it appears to be widely accepted as such. The comanchensis tooth form seems to have died out at the end of the Cretaceous because it has not been seen from Paleocene or Eocene or Early Oligocene layers anywhere. That's a long time to go undetected so it the tooth form is an unlikely relative of the megamouth and is more likely to be a lesser-known lamniform offshoot during a time (the Cretaceous) of many lamniform offshoots. Both of those seem to have nutrient groves that are so deep they nearly touch the tooth crown. But the shape does very much favor the Johnlongia sp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted August 1, 2010 Author Share Posted August 1, 2010 I have shown these to Kenshu Shimada, and he believes that they are Johnlongia. Sorry i didn't post this info last year when I showed them to him, but I had forgotten about this thread! Ramo For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Bowkill, Sorry for the long delay, but we work in geologic time, right? I'm now fairly certain that your mystery teeth are damaged examples of Johnlongia parvidens. I've recently collected two new specimens of Johnlongia from the Codell in Smith County and know of at least 4 others from Jewell County. I'm in the process of writing a paper on the species. You should be able to read about Johnlongia teeth collected from nearly the complete Late Cretaceous in Kansas later this year. Regards, Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Thanks, Mike. I'll get one of these to you soon, so you can include it in the paper. I was in Hays today and saw a couple of guys on top of the museum! Looked like they were doing a little maintenance. (Better them than me on top of that thing!!) Ramo For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 @bowkill, Yeah, even a concrete dome needs occasionally maintenance... and I think it was bit overdue in this case. FYI... My wife just found a really tiny Johnlongia in the Codell matrix that we are picking through.... about a millimeter in size... I'll try to photograph and post.... Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Okay, here's the photos.... Photo 1 shows the three teeth we recently collected from the Codell SS, in Smith County,KS... needless to say there was quite a lot of effort prepping the matrix and examining it under a microscope to find these. The larger teeth on the left are within the normal size range of Johnlongia... the little one at right is the smallest ever collected so far as I know... the "blob" at top left is part of the root of the largest tooth.. It broke off in the sonic bath. Photo 2 shows three views of the smallest tooth... Sorry about the focus, but at this magnification it's tough to everything focused on a tooth that is very "3-dimensional" Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieronymus Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Guys, what about a Squatina or a Cederstroemia of which the rootlobes have worn away? The rootlobes on both Squatinids and Cederstroemia (an orectolobiform) tend to break very easily. Certainly when it's found on the surface or in a transported or basegritlayer. The crowns do look like Squatina, a lot. http://rhaetianlorraine.webs.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 It's my understanding that Squatina occurs much later in the Cretaceous than these specimens.... Johnlongia parvidens is a valid species... and known to occur from Cenomanian through Coniacian in Kansas. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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