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Ammonites Epidaurus Greece


Dimitris

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Hello!

I am doing some labelling and archiving so that I do not loose track of my fossils.

Most of them, I have managed to narrow down to species, but for these little fellas.

 

Some info:

Triassic age

Scale bar: 1cm

70% Sturia sp.or 30% Arcestes sp.

Date of discovery: 2001 (My first found fossils)

Location: 37°36'19"N 23°04'25"E

The matrix is what locally call "Epidaurus marble". Same marble was used on the upper part of the Ancient theatre nearby, that's why it is full of cephalopods.

I have read THIS and THIS post, plus a publication mentioned on the second post so I am between Sturia and Arcestes, mostly balanced towards Sturia.

 

I compared against many photos, but I believe this made up my mind:

 

317d3873-afbe-4ef4-a7cf-491f5e9e8eb7.jpg  1c502e3d-d39f-4ea5-8fb6-31fb1c2826b8.jpg

 

dcef80d0-6800-4bea-ad08-7b794acecf42.jpg   bd640953-ce42-49ab-8246-d830986d9224.jpg  55b44577-9c98-4c39-a998-d1cdb3df1394.jpg

 

 

d99338ab-490e-4a92-b78b-bdf417cdc860.jpg   f039106a-4704-476d-a2fe-13453c79c4ea.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Currently, this outcrop is not exposed. Used to be a small quarry either for marble or for fossil extraction. Has been covered with soil more than a decade and transformed into an olive oil plantation.

Confirmed in person 12/2019.

 

I know my chances are too thin since the samples are two small, but if someone is experienced to Hallstat phase, I would appreciate some advice.

Wouldn't bother so much, but these are my firsts and hold deep sentimental value.

Thanks in advance!

 

thumbnail (2).jpg

thumbnail (3).jpg

thumbnail (1).jpg

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The photos are a bit dark, I cannot see any detail of the ammonites.  If you can rephotograph them in sunlight or bright light, also try to position them so the light is a bit from the side to make slight shadows to bring out detail of ribs or any other ornament.  If the light is too straight on so there are no shadows at all, surface features get washed out and look flat.

 

Don

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Thanks a lot for your help.

I will bring them tomorrow from my office, have there a photobox with proper lighting and a decent DSLR camera.

I believe with proper adjustment, I can make them as if you have the fossils in front of you.

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3 hours ago, taj said:

I see nothing wrong with your ID at that point Dimitris

Well, I consider the possibility the small fossil (1cm), which is complete, to be Sturia and the bigger one Arcestes. Sadly the second is missing some part, but it is easy to guess the whole size and shape.

I tried to compare against many pictures online and I came to the following conclusion:

i) Sturia is less symetric and usually thinner

ii) Arcestes tends to be more round, so its shape is like an elliptical sphere.

 

Both were extracted by the same block of marble and if memory serves me well, they must have been close.

Once, I came across a very nice publication that was classifying all Hallstatt ammonites according to size and ratios. Even if I had that, problem is they are juvenile and it is quite hard to tell the difference.

This formation is very popular in Austria, named after the town of Hallstatt were it was first observed, so I hope someone experienced, with a sharp eye on details, would be able to identify soon as I get better quality pictures.

 

During my last visit on the site, trying to find the same block (must have been covered under 3-5 meters of soil) I found a nice Monophyllites~6-7cm.

The matrix was very heavy to carry though.

82608807_10220852328155367_8085654849619

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There am I again!

Hope they are clear enough. I haven't used filters, not even smart sharpen. I only changed the curves of white to lighten a little the dark of the ammos.

 

 

IMG_7800.thumb.JPG.6c72bf26321279a4d3cc9794c630c740.JPGIMG_7799.thumb.JPG.29115e2edf8f16b570ed8d01035820ec.JPGIMG_7798.thumb.JPG.ab6790b06748f246b5cd4fe0dbb4fa3c.JPG

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Oh, I got confused on which ammos you needed ID. From my experience Arcestes tend to keep this spheroid form even in earlier stages so I would rule it out ..Nice Monophyllites , btw

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2 hours ago, taj said:

Oh, I got confused on which ammos you needed ID. From my experience Arcestes tend to keep this spheroid form even in earlier stages so I would rule it out ..Nice Monophyllites , btw

I was asking for the last three photos I posted, one post above (the very bright photos).

As per what you say and what I have read/seen can we say safely that the small one (left) is Sturia and the right Arcestes?

That Monophyllites, I may go again to collect it. Greek ammonites from Epidaurus are quite expensive since the outcrops are not accessible any more.

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Quote

That Monophyllites, I may go again to collect it.

You left it in situ ?? Looks like a multi block too !

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5 hours ago, taj said:

You left it in situ ?? Looks like a multi block too !

Yes, I couldnt move it far. I was with high fever, the site was at least 700m from dirt road were I had parked and I didnt have strength to carry.

Block size is 40-50 X 25 X 20 all in cm. Indeed is a multi. Here is the other side of the boulder.

Next day I was driving back to Bulgaria, then when I had the opportunity, borders closed.

I will collect it when I go again to Greece with car.

On this picture you can see the marks from the chisel on the right of the fossil. Tried to separate it but the matrix was super hard. I was hammering with a 1.5kg. 

81434937_10220852327595353_8271437658622787584_n.jpg

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