News on Dromaeosaurs pack hunting

[dinosaur man]

Just found this, but I’m not sure if it’s fully true considering the Deinonychus pack they discovered along with the Tenontosaurus.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200506123751.htm

[Randyw]

Interesting hypothesis but I’m not buying it. This is my uneducated opinion and just off the cuff so not as polished as I’d probably like it. But here goes. There are other things that could account for the differences. Also they are comparing them to kimodo dragons so they are comparing apples and oranges. The adults of course would be killing and eating anything worth eating. Pack makes a kill, everyone eats, the adults sit around digesting and making little Dinos. (Think packs of today)..

the littler ones though eat the kills of bigger ones BUT as anyone with kids and teenagers know they have the metabolism of hummingbirds! Always hungry! What are they doing while the adults are digesting? Playing, learning, etc and burning all those calories growing so what else are they doing? Snacking of course! On what you ask? What they can catch of course! So they would also be eating smaller stuff things the adults wouldn’t even snap at like bugs, small little tidbits, etc wich could account for a difference in diet and hence the difference in results. Nope nope going to have to provide better evidence then that to convince me...but that’s just my opinion...

[dinosaur man]

22 minutes ago, Randyw said:

Interesting hypothesis but I’m not buying it. This is my uneducated opinion and just off the cuff so not as polished as I’d probably like it. But here goes. There are other things that could account for the differences. Also they are comparing them to kimodo dragons so they are comparing apples and oranges. The adults of course would be killing and eating anything worth eating. Pack makes a kill, everyone eats, the adults sit around digesting and making little Dinos. (Think packs of today)..

the littler ones though eat the kills of bigger ones BUT as anyone with kids and teenagers know they have the metabolism of hummingbirds! Always hungry! What are they doing while the adults are digesting? Playing, learning, etc and burning all those calories growing so what else are they doing? Snacking of course! On what you ask? What they can catch of course! So they would also be eating smaller stuff things the adults wouldn’t even snap at like bugs, small little tidbits, etc wich could account for a difference in diet and hence the difference in results. Nope nope going to have to provide better evidence then that to convince me...but that’s just my opinion...

Yeah I agree too!  When I first read the article I didn’t believe it, but just look at the Tyrannosaur Gorgosaurus, Tyrannosaurs are known to hunt in packs/family groups but it’s thought that juveniles  would be able to catch Ornithomimosaurs for snacks but when there parents come with let’s say a Hadrosaur they will Eat it but in the meantime there playing learning to hunt and snacking just like most young wild cats do today.

[LordTrilobite]

5 hours ago, dinosaur man said:

Just found this, but I’m not sure if it’s fully true considering the Deinonychus pack they discovered along with the Tenontosaurus.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200506123751.htm

There never was a definitive Deinonychus pack. There are a number of Deinonychus that were found with Tenontosaurus. This does not mean it's a pack. It could be a pack. It could be an aggregation of carnivores just tolerating each other (not unlike crocodiles) or it could be a predator trap. That find was never really evidence for pack hunting at all and still isn't.

 

The closest we get is the apparent family group in Albertosaurus where it seems older individuals were being taken care of. But this too does not mean pack hunting. They could still have hunted alone.

 

Just because dinosaur pack hunting is ingrained in popular culture does not mean it's based on anything.

[Randyw]

True but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence. Trackways, multiple specimens found together and the like. True there is alternative explanations for them also. But for me there’s enough to consider it possible..

[Troodon]

Don't forget the Utahraptor block that is currently under prep.   The sandstone block now holds the fossilized bones of at least six Utahraptors, including an adult, four juveniles and a baby.  Could just be a family gathering.

[LordTrilobite]

1 hour ago, Randyw said:

True but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence. Trackways, multiple specimens found together and the like. True there is alternative explanations for them also. But for me there’s enough to consider it possible..

The default for living archosaurs is solitary hunting. So until there is clear evidence for actual pack hunting it shouldn't given much weight. Aggregation is not the same thing. So yeah, there is not enough evidence to consider pack hunting seriously.

[Randyw]

2 hours ago, Troodon said:

Don't forget the Utahraptor block that is currently under prep.   The sandstone block now holds the fossilized bones of at least six Utahraptors, including an adult, four juveniles and a baby.  Could just be a family gathering.

That’s one of the examples I was referring to. The evidence keeps adding up.

[LordTrilobite]

2 hours ago, Randyw said:

That’s one of the examples I was referring to. The evidence keeps adding up.

Family gathering is also not evidence for pack hunting.

[Troodon]

14 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said:

Family gathering is also not evidence for pack hunting.

I agree completely I've yet to see conclusive evidence.  Possibly that research might shed some light on it was my point

[jpc]

7 hours ago, Troodon said:

Don't forget the Utahraptor block that is currently under prep.   The sandstone block now holds the fossilized bones of at least six Utahraptors, including an adult, four juveniles and a baby.  Could just be a family gathering.

I don't think the are Utahraptors.  They are much smaller.  It is a block of rators from Utah, but....

[Troodon]

9 minutes ago, jpc said:

I don't think the are Utahraptors.  They are much smaller.  It is a block of rators from Utah, but....

Check this out, looks like a cool job.  They need volunteers 

 

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/2/26/21154572/mega-block-18000-pound-sandstone-dozen-utahraptor-skeletons-new-home

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/1/150106-utahraptor-death-trap-fossil/

 

 

From the article @LordTrilobite, @Randyw

 

 "Utahraptors likely hunted in packs, using their young as what Kirkland called “cannon fodder” so the larger raptors could move in for the kill. Kirkland thinks the herd came across an herbivore stuck in mud or quicksand when they, too, got caught and died."

[jpc]

One thing that bothers me with papers like this, actually,  more the press that follows it, is that they study one species of dromeaosaur and the press assumes the results fit all beasts in the family.  Ostrom said Deinonychus probably hunted in packs, so they now assume all 'raptors' (I hate that term) hunt in packs.  (I have not read Ostrom's paper, so I do not know if he extended the behavior to the whole family or if Jurassic Park or the press did that).  This paper tries to refute Ostrom's theory about Deinonychus, and Dienonychus alone.  Presto, the rule applies to all its cousins says this press story.   Keep this in mind... wolves are pack hunters and live in solid pack societies,  Their close relative, the coyote is primaily a solo critter.  As are foxes. 

[Troodon]

Agree, and you are talking about tens of millions of years apart, behavior can change.

@jpc

 

[jpc]

13 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Check this out, looks like a cool job

 

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/2/26/21154572/mega-block-18000-pound-sandstone-dozen-utahraptor-skeletons-new-home

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/1/150106-utahraptor-death-trap-fossil/

 

 

From the article @LordTrilobite, @Randyw

 

 "Utahraptors likely hunted in packs, using their young as what Kirkland called “cannon fodder” so the larger raptors could move in for the kill. Kirkland thinks the herd came across an herbivore stuck in mud or quicksand when they, too, got caught and died."

I stand corrected.  The bones seemed awfully small when I saw them.  

[jpc]

7 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Agree, and you are talking about tens of millions of years apart, behavior can change.

@jpc

 

yes.