Possible fish scale from the Lost River?

[cameronsfossilcollection]

First post, long lurker! I found this fossil a while back at the well known Lost River outcrop on old Route 55 near Wardensville. It’s about an inch tall and across, and has an intricate, almost web-like pattern when you look close enough (my camera has a hard time picking it up!) I thought it may have been some kind of coral or bryozoan - but someone mentioned it may be a Hyneria scale or scale of some similar fashion, and that I should ask here. Any ideas guys? Thanks!

Edited May 28, 2020 by cameronsfossilcollection

[Misha]

Just to clarify, I only said it looked like a Hyneria not that it was one.

Welcome to the forum!

[cameronsfossilcollection]

Ah, sorry about that  I appreciate the advice and the assistance!

[westcoast]

Thats a really nice scale and an excellent photo which we all appreciate here.

[cameronsfossilcollection]

So you think it may be a scale too? And thanks, I was worried it might not be high quality enough!

[Misha]

I know @Fossildude19 is good with fish,

@Shamalama is very familiar with the formation and they may be able to help you.

Not sure about who else I can tag to help.

[Fossildude19]

Looks like a scale to me. 

Possibly a rhizodont scale.

Compare with this one from Terry Dactyl's gallery here on the Forum. :

 

 

 

@jdp  @Archie

[FossilDAWG]

I'm good with fish scale as well.

 

Don

[Archie]

Definitely a Rhizodont scale, its very similar to the genus Strepsodus from the Coal Measures over here. Cool find!

[Miocene_Mason]

Abnormal find for there, epic!!

[cameronsfossilcollection]

I really appreciate it everyone. Of all the talks I've had about the Lost River, nobody has every mentioned Rhizodont scales. Will look into some middle Devonian rhizodonts and see if I find any matches. 

[Petalodus12]

If it turns out to be a Rhizodont, which seems very probable at the moment, it may be important. I have practically no experience with this formation but from my experience of hunting for vertebrate fossils in late Paleozoic rocks along the east coast I’ve learned that: 1. If you find an articulated or unusual vertebrate fossil even in beds known to produce vertebrates, then it is important. 2. If you find any vertebrate remains where it seems unusual for them to be, then it is probably important as well. 

 

Due to a multitude of factors, most of our knowledge of the Paleozoic vertebrate fauna of the east coast comes from a few well known sites such as Linton in Ohio or Red Hill/ the Old Red Sandstone further east. Even if this scale is from a genus or species that has been well recorded, if this is a novel occurrence it still gives us a more comprehensive view of what this ecosystem looked like. Now I could be wrong and this may be a species that has already been recorded in this layer, but regardless of that it is an awesome find! 

[cameronsfossilcollection]

1 minute ago, Petalodus12 said:

If it turns out to be a Rhizodont, which seems very probable at the moment, it may be important. I have practically no experience with this formation but from my experience of hunting for vertebrate fossils in late Paleozoic rocks along the east coast I’ve learned that: 1. If you find an articulated or unusual vertebrate fossil even in beds known to produce vertebrates, then it is important. 2. If you find any vertebrate remains where it seems unusual for them to be, then it is probably important as well. 

 

Due to a multitude of factors, most of our knowledge of the Paleozoic vertebrate fauna of the east coast comes from a few well known sites such as Linton in Ohio or Red Hill/ the Old Red Sandstone further east. Even if this scale is from a genus or species that has been well recorded, if this is a novel occurrence it still gives us a more comprehensive view of what this ecosystem looked like. Now I could be wrong and this may be a species that has already been recorded in this layer, but regardless of that it is an awesome find! 

I’ve certainly never found anything to my knowledge belonging to a vertebrate in the LR. I appreciate the exciting news about the fossil’s possible importance, should I bring I somewhere or submit photos? The preservation isn’t picked up very well on the camera, but it’s got a very detailed web-like design overtop the specimen. 

[Petalodus12]

18 minutes ago, cameronsfossilcollection said:

I’ve certainly never found anything to my knowledge belonging to a vertebrate in the LR. I appreciate the exciting news about the fossil’s possible importance, should I bring I somewhere or submit photos? The preservation isn’t picked up very well on the camera, but it’s got a very detailed web-like design overtop the specimen. 

I’d say maybe contact your local museum or possibly whatever museums have large collections of fossils from this time and general location. I’d wait for further replies on the topic from people who know the formation very well, though. When it comes to collecting I’m nowhere near professional so again I’d wait for responses from forum members whose opinions have quite a bit more weight than mine does.

[jdp]

The vertebrate fauna of Mahantango is pretty poorly known so I would agree that it would be nice if this could end up in a museum collection. James Lamsdell at WVU might be one person to contact. Another option would be to get in touch with the Carnegie Museum up in Pittsburgh; they have a pretty extensive collection of fossils from West Virginia so this would fit in well there.

 

In terms of ID, I wonder if this is a lungfish scale rather than a rhizodont.

[Miocene_Mason]

17 hours ago, jdp said:

The vertebrate fauna of Mahantango

I believe this site is primarily Needmore Formation. I’ll send a picture to a paleo friend at WVU and see what he says.

[jdp]

Whoa, this is Needmore? Eifelian is pretty old for any of the groups mentioned here.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Kane

[Carl]

Just now stumbling on this thread. Long, long ago, I found something just like this (now deeply re-buried in my home stratigraphy...) in the Mahantango of PA. Always thought it was a crinoid calyx plate. Is it definitely not a crinoid plate and definitely a fish scale?

Edited February 27 by Carl