Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Receiving this gorgeous but mysterious specimen is from Upper Pennsylvanian limestone dated around 290-300 million years ago from somewhere around Kansas City. Looks like a tooth to me and my best guess would be orodus? But I have little experience with Pennsylvanian shark teeth in general and especially from this area, also cannot find a comparison elsewhere online. Any help will be appreciated.

20200531_233713.jpg

20200531_233702.jpg

20200531_233652.jpg

20200531_233629.jpg

20200531_233606.jpg

  • I found this Informative 11
  • Enjoyed 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Orodus? I'm not as good at identifying shark teeth from pre-late cretaceous formations, but it looks similar to pictures I've seen on here. 

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wish I could help with an identification to this nice specimen. My purpose in posting is to truly compliment your photography!!! Would grade it as an A+ but lowered your grade to an A since no size indicator exists in any picture.

 

 Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@jdp  @Archie  @JimB88

 

Awesome acquisition! 

    Tim    VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

   MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png      PaleoPartner.png.30c01982e09b0cc0b7d9d6a7a21f56c6.png.a600039856933851eeea617ca3f2d15f.png     Postmaster1.jpg.900efa599049929531fa81981f028e24.jpg    VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png  VFOTM APRIL - 2015  

__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."
John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not a shark expert but I did stay at a holiday inn express once....   Agassizodus sp.

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Searcher78 said:

Very nice! It reminds me of the Bullhead/Horn Shark tooth.

Bullhead-Horn.png

Likely a great example of convergent evolution.

 

Don

  • I found this Informative 1
  • I Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Woah, pretty tooth for sure!!!

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How certain are you of the provenance? I think this is hybodontiform rather than orodontid or eugeneodontiform. It looks a lot like some Triassic-Jurassic Asteracanthus material. The closest I can think of from the Carboniferous is some very small material from Hamiltonichthys, but those teeth are only 2-3 mm in size. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats beautiful! Looks like Orodus ramosus, they do look a lot like Hybodont teeth such as Asteracanthus ornatissimus.

  • I found this Informative 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you everyone for the  help, comments, and feedback! I'm certain the providence is pretty accurate by the horn corals and shells that have been found as well I've seen and while I'm not familiar with the geology to well on that area I think the limestone deposits in the Kansas city area are a majority Pennsylvanian in age, but I could be wrong.

 

@Archie Thank you! This was the closest comparison I could find as well, looks the most similar. 

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, minnbuckeye said:

Wish I could help with an identification to this nice specimen. My purpose in posting is to truly compliment your photography!!! Would grade it as an A+ but lowered your grade to an A since no size indicator exists in any picture.

 

 Mike

I wish these photos were mine haha but they came from the original source  who's sending the fossil to me and would be much better than what I am capable to do with just my phone lol, I definitely do wish a size indicator was included as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Ryann10006 said:

I wish these photos were mine haha but they came from the original source  who's sending the fossil to me and would be much better than what I am capable to do with just my phone lol, I definitely do wish a size indicator was included as well.

Just comparing it to the thumb...….maybe 1 inch X 1/2 inch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Searcher78 said:

Just comparing it to the thumb...….maybe 1 inch X 1/2 inch.

Hands and fingers are not a great measuring tool. 

 

For example:

 

 

20170305112553-5a6c2257.jpg.10f430e1da283adba374eb7389985d7e.jpg

 

  • I found this Informative 1
  • Enjoyed 1

    Tim    VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

   MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png      PaleoPartner.png.30c01982e09b0cc0b7d9d6a7a21f56c6.png.a600039856933851eeea617ca3f2d15f.png     Postmaster1.jpg.900efa599049929531fa81981f028e24.jpg    VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png  VFOTM APRIL - 2015  

__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."
John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

Hands and fingers are not a great measuring tool. 

 

For example:

20170305112553-5a6c2257.jpg.10f430e1da283adba374eb7389985d7e.jpg

True, but I’m not counting giants...lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/1/2020 at 3:22 PM, Archie said:

Thats beautiful! Looks like Orodus ramosus, they do look a lot like Hybodont teeth such as Asteracanthus ornatissimus.

Maybe a passing resemblance but I think that's it.

 

A partial description of the O. ramosus group from the Handbook of Paleoichthyology Vol. 3D:

"The medial cusp is very low and covered with wavy ridges radiating from the tip, the labio-lingual ridge being the most conspicuous. A winding, strong ridge extends from the median cusp to the lateral ends of the crown, which may be pointed or rounded in outline. Numerous secondary ridges connect the main mesio-distal ridge with the base."

 

From the pictures, the larger ridges do not appear to radiate from what I presume is the tip of the medial cusp. And most of larger ridges also do not extend all the way from the base to the mesio-distal ridge, instead stopping part way up the crown.

 

5ed713960508b_ScreenShot2020-06-02at10_05_43PM.thumb.png.7edcc602c7293dd5d4f38edf091d7984.png

 

K and L are probably the closest matches but there are still a lot of differences.

  • I found this Informative 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having the tooth in hand the specimen measure about 2 inches in length, which is pretty huge for the tooth of an early shark/fish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

***Edited***

Hello, all!

I'm most familiar with Chondrichthyans from the Mississippian, so this is a little out of my expertise, but I'll weigh in. I have Ginter et al. 2010 handy and will be referencing it.

Given what I can see, I agree with jdp that this is more likely a member of the Hybodontiformes than the Orodontiformes. As such, I do not believe that it is Orodus ramosus, as it seems to lack a prominent central cusp, "secondary ridges," or the "wavy" ornamentation often seen on these specimens.

Rather, the tooth seems to share the most similarities with Hamiltonichthys MAISEY 1989. Only one species has been reported from this genus, H. mapesi, and it has only been reported from the Upper Pennsylvanian of Kansas. The similarities are as follows:

-Its occlusal crest most certainly "runs the length of the tooth."
-"Quite coarse, occasionally bifurcating vertical cristae" cover the enamel, many of which originate from the crest, and extend to the shoulder.
 -The tooth seems to match the overall shape of those from H. mapesi.

That being said, there are a few issues with this ID:

-This tooth is much longer than those reported from H. mapesi, which are only a few mm in length.
-The central cusp appears much less prominent than those in H. mapesi.
-I'm not sure whether this tooth comes from the same localities as H. mapesi.

And, unfortunately, the root remains completely buried within the matrix, which hides important clues.

Given the above, I now think that the best identification I can give at this point is Hybodontiformes indet and mention that there are several similarities with H. mapesi.

I hope this helps!

EDIT: @Ryann10006 Now that you're uploaded a few more images (thank you!), I've revised my original post. I mistook the occlusal crest for a dividing line between the enamel and root or between two teeth in a tooth whorl and now realize that I was being rather silly. All this is to say: the new images are much more helpful! Thank you. Please see my revised comments, above.
 

Edited by Elasmohunter
Updated to Improve Accuracy
  • I found this Informative 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Elasmohunter Glad they helped! Thank you very much for the edit so its safer to say now it can be at least labeled as a Hybodontiformes indet. Very awesome!

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...