Harry Pristis Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Geofossil . . . The image in your album you have labeled "Crocodilia molars" CLICK HERE TO SEE IMAGE appears to be an image of mosasaur teeth from Globidens sp. I haven't seen all the croc teeth in the world, but I've never seen one with a mushroom shape like yours. Did these teeth all come from one site, that is, from one individual? Nice find! ------Harry Pristis http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierk Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 They also kind of look like some cretaceous croc teeth I found at a site in SC that are from Thoracosaurus. I've got a number of them from that site and they do resemble those quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofossil Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Geofossil . . . The image in your album you have labeled "Crocodilia molars" CLICK HERE TO SEE IMAGE appears to be an image of mosasaur teeth from Globidens sp. I haven't seen all the croc teeth in the world, but I've never seen one with a mushroom shape like yours. Did these teeth all come from one site, that is, from one individual? Nice find! ------Harry Pristis Croc teeth. These are from non-marine deposits. Mosasaurs were strictly marines animals Croc teeth are common and these are molars. (Leidyosuchus, etc.) Several croc mounts/ teeth can be seen at the Tyrell museum if you are ever in the area. I've never found any mosasaur material..teeth, vertebrae, etc. outside of Bearpaw Sea fomation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I've seen teeth like those in the early Late Cretaceous of Nevada, and also from the early Late Cretaceous and late Late Cretaceous of Montana, in non-marine rocks. There are even some of these 'button' teeth that get even more flattened, almost like molars. These are posterior croc teeth. Its hard to get a scale on those guys, but Globidens teeth are pretty big, and if I remember correctly, Globidens is extremely rare. Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nicholas Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I did some research and I am going with the Croc on this one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Croc teeth. These are from non-marine deposits. Mosasaurs were strictly marines animals Croc teeth are common and these are molars. (Leidyosuchus, etc.) Several croc mounts/ teeth can be seen at the Tyrell museum if you are ever in the area. I've never found any mosasaur material..teeth, vertebrae, etc. outside of Bearpaw Sea fomation. Thanks for the response, Geofossil. You seem to imply that you collected these croc teeth . . . is that correct? In other words, there's no room for error because you collected them. You don't provide any information about where you collected those teeth. So, are we to assume that, when you collected these teeth at an unknown place, the difference between a marine, lacustrine, or terrestrial context was apparent? I wish you could provide more substantial information than: Mosasaurs were marine animals Croc teeth are common Croc mounts can be seen at a museum You've never collected any mosasaur material outside of the Bearpaw This is not useful information when trying to get more than your assertion that the teeth are crocodilian. Too bad your teeth aren't Globidens, since Globidens seems to be a rare species of mosasaur. Do you have any Globidens teeth in your collection for comparison? I thought that these teeth below might be Globidens; but, maybe they're just croc molars. What do you think? --------Harry Pristis http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 I've seen teeth like those in the early Late Cretaceous of Nevada, and also from the early Late Cretaceous and late Late Cretaceous of Montana, in non-marine rocks. There are even some of these 'button' teeth that get even more flattened, almost like molars.These are posterior croc teeth. Its hard to get a scale on those guys, but Globidens teeth are pretty big, and if I remember correctly, Globidens is extremely rare. Bobby Well, my problem with your testimony is that it is anecdotal. I don't know where Geofossil collected the teeth. Show me mushroomed croc teeth, Bobby! There is no scale in Geofossil's image, so his teeth can be any size. Globidens teeth are no bigger than crocodile teeth, but they do have a different shape and structure. That is the issue. Come on, guys and gals . . . show me the beef! http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 They also kind of look like some cretaceous croc teeth I found at a site in SC that are from Thoracosaurus. I've got a number of them from that site and they do resemble those quite a bit. Show us photos of your similar teeth, Bierk! http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 I did some research and I am going with the Croc on this one too. Show us your research, Nicholas! http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierk Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I mis-spoke earlier in my post. At the site I was referring to, there were two types of croc material found, and I gave the wrong name. I meant to say Bottosaurus, my apologies. Here's a picture of some of the teeth from the site(hopefully I attached it correctly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofossil Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 They are definitely (zero doubt) croc teeth. These teeth are very common in our deposits. Hundreds of collectors have collected thousands of them. From Hope & Johnson: A Guide to Vertebrae Fossils of Alberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofossil Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I've seen teeth like those in the early Late Cretaceous of Nevada, and also from the early Late Cretaceous and late Late Cretaceous of Montana, in non-marine rocks. There are even some of these 'button' teeth that get even more flattened, almost like molars.These are posterior croc teeth. Its hard to get a scale on those guys, but Globidens teeth are pretty big, and if I remember correctly, Globidens is extremely rare. Bobby That's a good observation. The crocodilia vary somewhat among the genera. Here in Alberta there's about 6 or so identified generaand many more unstudied variations. The teeth vary 'a bit' in curvature, molar shape, etc. One of the issues is that crocs shed teeth and they vary in size in the jaw so it can be difficult to extrapolate much info from an isolated tooth. The molars are more indicative of the croc size and age and thus more diagnostic. Who's who? Hard to tell without more elements found in association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybodus Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Yes, they are Croc teeth - the most common North American Late Cretaceous Croc that does indeed have flattened "button" type teeth is Thoracosaurus neocesariensis. I have collected them from Mississippi and North Carolina. Also, other Cretaceous forms include, Deinosuchus rugosus and Bottosaurus sp. both known from these same type of teeth. I do have a many of both Thoracosaurus neocesariensis and Globidens alabamaensis from Mississippi, and though some tooth diagnostics are similiar between the two, there are also obvious differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrocklds Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 hybodus, i completely agree. out of my curiosity could you post a comparison photo with globidens and the thoracosaurus and educate me on the differences. i have found neither but would be interested to know the differences thanks Brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybodus Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Hi Brock - will charge the batteries of my digital camera and post some pics with descriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrocklds Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 thanks that would be fantastic. Brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Yes, they are Croc teeth - the most common North American Late Cretaceous Croc that does indeed have flattened "button" type teeth is Thoracosaurus neocesariensis. I have collected them from Mississippi and North Carolina. Also, other Cretaceous forms include, Deinosuchus rugosus and Bottosaurus sp. both known from these same type of teeth.I do have a many of both Thoracosaurus neocesariensis and Globidens alabamaensis from Mississippi, and though some tooth diagnostics are similiar between the two, there are also obvious differences. This is the beef! Please show us a comparison of crocodilian rear teeth and Globidens teeth. I must say that I just read the 1983 description by Kenneth Carpenter of the most complete Thoracosaurus neocesariensis known to that date (it's from Mississippi). The teeth lack distinction to the degree that Carpenter mentions nothing about their form, only the tooth count. Let's face it, croc teeth are generic. Rear teeth are short and stout. They may be laterally constricted. But they are not mushroomed; that is, the crowns are not significantly wider than the root. And they don't have a peak, a nipple at the tip of the crown . . . do they? Here are the three teeth in geofossil's group that appear to me to be Globidens-like. Compare them to my teeth, and tell me what I have. ---------Harry Pristis http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrocklds Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Harry, here are some Eocene aged Crocodillian teeth that i found in Duchesne, Utah. notice the mushrooming of a couple of these. the first one even has the nipple tip on it. Brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofossil Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Brock, Nice teeth! Just curious if you found any other croc remains in those deposits. Mammals? I've driven that road a couple of times to Vernal. My wife and I stopped at one spot and I was running my fingers through the sand and came up with a dozen or so croc vertebrae. Unfortunately it was tick season and the little buggers were all over us. We took the road across to Craig and up into Wyoming. Along that stretch from Baggs, Wyoming up north to the Interstate we stopped at a few places randomly and found a couple of mammal jaw sections. There must be a load of good 'stuff' along those back stretches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy 55 Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Great info guys!!!!!! It's my bone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybodus Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Hi Folks, the paper Harry refers to can be found here: https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpen...PageView=Shared lots of killer papers... you gotta love when paleontologists understand the importance of sharing publications! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybodus Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Ok Harry, here is some beef... without digging out too many references in order to scan pages, check out the attached - it clearly shows a great example - this one is another Cretaceous crocodylian, Brachychampsa montana and the figure is of a juvenile, with figure D being the most telling. I am not an expert on Crocs or Mosasaurs, but have collected many specimens of both... and MANY late cretaceous marine locals contain both. The blunt croc teeth can be tough to distinguish from Globidens teeth. Reference is: Lucas, S. G., Spielmann, J. A., Sullivan, R. M. and Lewis, C. 2006. Late Cretaceous Crocodylians From The San Juan Basin, New Mexico. New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science, Bulletin 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micropterus101 Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I am just going to call them Crocosaurs. fossil crabs website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Ok Harry, here is some beef... without digging out too many references in order to scan pages, check out the attached - it clearly shows a great example - this one is another Cretaceous crocodylian, Brachychampsa montana and the figure is of a juvenile, with figure D being the most telling.I am not an expert on Crocs or Mosasaurs, but have collected many specimens of both... and MANY late cretaceous marine locals contain both. The blunt croc teeth can be tough to distinguish from Globidens teeth. Reference is: Lucas, S. G., Spielmann, J. A., Sullivan, R. M. and Lewis, C. 2006. Late Cretaceous Crocodylians From The San Juan Basin, New Mexico. New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science, Bulletin 35. Brachychampsa appears to be an alligator; but, I'll not niggle. Thanks for the images. It IS a crocodilian with mushroomed rear teeth! Now I know. No one wants to give me a guess about my teeth. I was really hoping to see some American Globidens. Mine are Globidens aegypticus from Morocco. I presented some premolars which are more croc-like to my eye. Here's a larger group, though it's not yet an effort at putting together a set of teeth. Thanks for the information, fella's! --------Harry Pristis http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greel Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Hi Folks, the paper Harry refers to can be found here: https://scientists.dmns.org/sites/kencarpen...PageView=Shared lots of killer papers... you gotta love when paleontologists understand the importance of sharing publications! Thanks for the great link hybodus - YOU ROCK! -greel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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