markjw Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 On 9/17/2020 at 5:51 AM, Monica said: Hey Roger @Ludwigia Here are a couple of photos of the almost-to-the-tip nautiloid glued together: Do you think it's Treptoceras crebriseptum? I'm assuming it is since that's what I usually find, but the lack of visible septa is throwing me off. I went back to my site on Saturday. I didn't find anything terribly exciting, but I did find some fairly complete bryozoans - here are some photos of one of them: I plan on gluing these pieces together when I find the time to do so. A Paleo guy told me that the ridges on our common orthocones are the signs one has the internal mold. I get the impression that the actual creature was mostly smooth on the outside. I was a little surprised by this, but had once suspected it might be the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 On 9/17/2020 at 7:18 PM, markjw said: A Paleo guy told me that the ridges on our common orthocones are the signs one has the internal mold. I get the impression that the actual creature was mostly smooth on the outside. I was a little surprised by this, but had once suspected it might be the case. I never even thought of that, Mark! You learn something new every day. Thanks for chiming in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 On 9/17/2020 at 4:51 AM, Monica said: but the lack of visible septa is throwing me off. Another possibility, since septa are not visible, is that this is a siphuncle, though the thicker end leaves me doubtful. Could you see a siphuncle in the ends of the broken pieces?? Locally, I discover large siphuncles frequently. Is that bryozoan a Prasapora?? Looks great in association with the crinoid. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 8:15 AM, minnbuckeye said: Another possibility, since septa are not visible, is that this is a siphuncle, though the thicker end leaves me doubtful. Could you see a siphuncle in the ends of the broken pieces?? Locally, I discover large siphuncles frequently. Is that bryozoan a Prasapora?? Looks great in association with the crinoid. Mike Hi Mike! Thanks for giving your thoughts on the matter! I don't think this specimen is a siphuncle because I see evidence of the siphuncle at the tip of the specimen - here are some photos: And here's a photo of the other end: As for the bryozoan - Adam @Tidgy's Dad thinks it's Mesotrypa, and I think I agree with him since the description of this genus that's given in my book by Bill Hessin seems to be a nice match. I hope that all is well with you!!! Monica 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 13 hours ago, Monica said: I see evidence of the siphuncle at the tip of the specimen @Monica That blows my theory!!! 13 hours ago, Monica said: Mesotrypa, and I think I agree with him since the description of this genus that's given in my book by Bill Hessin seems to be a nice match How do you differentiate grossly between Prasapora and Mesotrypa??? Maybe I have been improperly labeling some of my specimens. @Tidgy's Dad. My search for an answer was over my head!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 5 hours ago, minnbuckeye said: @Monica That blows my theory!!! How do you differentiate grossly between Prasapora and Mesotrypa??? Maybe I have been improperly labeling some of my specimens. @Tidgy's Dad. My search for an answer was over my head!! I think it's probably very tricky without cut and polished sections through the specimens. They are closely related genera. Possibly, Prasopora has slightly larger zooecia, with bigger numbers of smaller mesozooecia in between. But I don't think Prasopora occurs in the Georgian Bay Formation so I opted for Mesotrypa. 2 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 Hello everyone! This past weekend I and my husband finally glued together and stabilized the Endoceras proteiforme that I found back in September - here are a couple of photos of it: As you can see, pieces are missing, and that's because I pulled it out of very flakey shale and fragments fell off of it upon extraction. This, along with the fact that it had many cracks running through it, is why I stabilized it with with a mixture of acetone and paraloid - I didn't want it to disintegrate over time! Overall I'm quite happy with the end result, especially because now I can say that I have a self-found, local Endoceras as part of my fossil collection 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Most splendid! 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruger9a Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Very nice!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Wow! I don't know how I've missed this topic for so long but this is the first time I've encountered it. Beautiful fossils! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjfriend Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 On 9/17/2020 at 1:51 AM, Monica said: I plan on gluing these pieces together when I find the time to do so. Great finds! For myself, I would leave the bottom one as is. Great display to show the internal structure of the fossil. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 Thanks @Tidgy's Dad, @Ruger9a, @Misha, and @Sjfriend! By the way - I decided to leave the bryozoan unglued, thanks to everyone's suggestions to do so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Update on this mysterious nautiloid: I emailed pictures of this fossil (along with pictures of the glued-and-stabilized Endoceras proteiforme fossil) to Dave Rudkin, who is the retired curator of invertebrate paleontology at the ROM, and this is what he said: "Thanks for this nice set of cephalopod pics from your Etobicoke Creek hotspot. I can set your mind at ease on two counts herein. Firstly, your instincts on the putative "odd" Treptoceras are quite correct ... it isn't that at all. Secondly, you now have two examples of Endoceras sp., cf. E. proteiforme! Those first two photos are also of Endoceras, but they show an entirely different aspect of the beast. The long, narrowly tapered object is what is known as an endocone "speiss" - the nested conical endosiphuncular deposits that lie inside the large, heavily mineralized siphuncle of Endoceras. Your photos of the second specimen show the outside of the siphuncle preserved within the phragmocone (chambered region), marked by annular ridges where the septa were in contact." So, the mystery fossil is an endocone belonging to Endoceras proteiforme, which is (obviously, since I didn't know what it was!) a new fossil for me! Hooray! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Monica said: Update on this mysterious nautiloid: I emailed pictures of this fossil (along with pictures of the glued-and-stabilized Endoceras proteiforme fossil) to Dave Rudkin, who is the retired curator of invertebrate paleontology at the ROM, and this is what he said: "Thanks for this nice set of cephalopod pics from your Etobicoke Creek hotspot. I can set your mind at ease on two counts herein. Firstly, your instincts on the putative "odd" Treptoceras are quite correct ... it isn't that at all. Secondly, you now have two examples of Endoceras sp., cf. E. proteiforme! Those first two photos are also of Endoceras, but they show an entirely different aspect of the beast. The long, narrowly tapered object is what is known as an endocone "speiss" - the nested conical endosiphuncular deposits that lie inside the large, heavily mineralized siphuncle of Endoceras. Your photos of the second specimen show the outside of the siphuncle preserved within the phragmocone (chambered region), marked by annular ridges where the septa were in contact." So, the mystery fossil is an endocone belonging to Endoceras proteiforme, which is (obviously, since I didn't know what it was!) a new fossil for me! Hooray! Well, that is just "blow-me-away" interesting. What a twist in the tale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, markjw said: Well, that is just "blow-me-away" interesting. What a twist in the tale. I was certainly very happy to find the "real" answer to this little puzzle. It was troubling me because when I placed this "mystery" fossil in my fossil display next to my T. crebriseptum specimens, it just didn't look "right". Now that I know its true identity, I'll place it on display next to my E. proteiforme, where it will look much nicer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRatKing Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 42 minutes ago, Monica said: Update on this mysterious nautiloid: I emailed pictures of this fossil (along with pictures of the glued-and-stabilized Endoceras proteiforme fossil) to Dave Rudkin, who is the retired curator of invertebrate paleontology at the ROM, and this is what he said: "Thanks for this nice set of cephalopod pics from your Etobicoke Creek hotspot. I can set your mind at ease on two counts herein. Firstly, your instincts on the putative "odd" Treptoceras are quite correct ... it isn't that at all. Secondly, you now have two examples of Endoceras sp., cf. E. proteiforme! Those first two photos are also of Endoceras, but they show an entirely different aspect of the beast. The long, narrowly tapered object is what is known as an endocone "speiss" - the nested conical endosiphuncular deposits that lie inside the large, heavily mineralized siphuncle of Endoceras. Your photos of the second specimen show the outside of the siphuncle preserved within the phragmocone (chambered region), marked by annular ridges where the septa were in contact." So, the mystery fossil is an endocone belonging to Endoceras proteiforme, which is (obviously, since I didn't know what it was!) a new fossil for me! Hooray! I was so excited to read this result I sprayed soda all over my keyboard! Great work. Great Specimens! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 9 hours ago, LabRatKing said: I was so excited to read this result I sprayed soda all over my keyboard! Great work. Great Specimens! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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