Pig Tooth?

[Frank Menser]

Found this in the Holey Lands (so named because of the many Gator holes) off US 27 Palm Beach Co. Florida. I believe it to belong to a pig species?

The tooth is under an inch in size. Unfortunately the limestone is harder than the tooth so removing it would be dangerous to it. Still I think an interesting matrix specimen.

[Sharks of SC]

I posted what turned out to be a neocene pig molar a few weeks ago, but it didnt look quite like that (it was just the crown, though). Could you add something to the picture to indicate scale?

Thanks -

CBK

[Frank Menser]

Here ya go..

[TourmalineGuy]

Any idea what mineral the tooth is made of? Because you could potentially remove the limestone with a weak acid...

[Sharks of SC]

Hmmm. Its about the same size, Im not sure.

[Frank Menser]

Any idea what mineral the tooth is made of? Because you could potentially remove the limestone with a weak acid...

The preservation is in Calcium carbonate + Phosphates. The bad news is that unless the aim is spot on even a weak acid solution would at the very least destroy the luster of the tooth.

[PrehistoricFlorida]

It's not pig, looks to be some other type of artiodactyl.

[tracer]

well, without having the occlusal surface cleaned off and viewed, it's kind of a crudshoot. and it kind of looks to me like maybe a mandibular premolar, which is normally pretty different looking from the rest of the teeth anyway. nothing "piggy" about it, and if it's buried in hard limestone...

how old are we talking here? do you know the formation?

[Gatorman]

It's not pig, looks to be some other type of artiodactyl.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Harry Pristis]

An occlusal view of the tooth would be useful. You can grind the adhering limestone with your dremel tool and a stainless steel wire brush.

[PrehistoricFlorida]

An occlusal view of the tooth would be useful. You can grind the adhering limestone with your dremel tool and a stainless steel wire brush.

Yes, this works, but make sure you are outside with eye protection. The little "wires" off the steel brush are very painful in a barefoot.

[Frank Menser]

well, without having the occlusal surface cleaned off and viewed, it's kind of a crudshoot. and it kind of looks to me like maybe a mandibular premolar, which is normally pretty different looking from the rest of the teeth anyway. nothing "piggy" about it, and if it's buried in hard limestone...

how old are we talking here? do you know the formation?

This tooth was part of a large deposit of animal bones found in what was once a sinkhole in extreme west Palm Beach County. It was under water till the area was dredged to put a pumping station in. We identified ten species of mammal alone. Associated species included; Smilodon, Mastodon, Mammoth, Giant Sloth, Ground Sloth, Capybara, Equus, Armadillo, Giant Beaver plus several reptile and fish species. So the question is how long the hole was collecting victims before it was finally burried and submerged. We were able to hunt for three months before the area was destroyed by reflooding and plant growth.

The biting surface appears open-nothing like a Human molar. if I were to make a comparison it is very much like a very tiny Brontotherium in appearance. Will post better pics of it tomorrow. This is the biggest problem in extracting it as there appears to be just a shell. I'm afraid a wire brush would shatter this. Will see if my electric engraver can expose more (I prepped a Dicranurus with it and managed to expose the horns safely).

[siteseer]

I was thinking the same thing.

Yeah, it's about the size and shape of a deer premolar.

[Harry Pristis]

Yes, this works, but make sure you are outside with eye protection. The little "wires" off the steel brush are very painful in a barefoot.

You want to avoid one of those stainless steel bristles breaking off at high speed and hitting you in the eye!!

Here's a tip I learned from a preparator: Coat the new wire brush bristles with silicone caulk and allow to cure before using. The brush lasts (bristles remain straight) longer, and the bristles are less likely to fly off. I just used a finger to force the caulk within the bristles and left a thin coat on the surface.

[PrehistoricFlorida]

This tooth was part of a large deposit of animal bones found in what was once a sinkhole in extreme west Palm Beach County. It was under water till the area was dredged to put a pumping station in. We identified ten species of mammal alone. Associated species included; Smilodon, Mastodon, Mammoth, Giant Sloth, Ground Sloth, Capybara, Equus, Armadillo, Giant Beaver plus several reptile and fish species. So the question is how long the hole was collecting victims before it was finally burried and submerged. We were able to hunt for three months before the area was destroyed by reflooding and plant growth.

The biting surface appears open-nothing like a Human molar. if I were to make a comparison it is very much like a very tiny Brontotherium in appearance. Will post better pics of it tomorrow. This is the biggest problem in extracting it as there appears to be just a shell. I'm afraid a wire brush would shatter this. Will see if my electric engraver can expose more (I prepped a Dicranurus with it and managed to expose the horns safely).

Let's see the Smilodon!!

[edd]

yeah, the dremel with the wire brush, i got a few of those wires in my fingers and toes and didnt feel them at entry till after a few days when they got in there really deep, it was fun taking those things out ...anyway, the tooth might be from a peccary...

[Auspex]

You want to avoid one of those stainless steel bristles breaking off at high speed and hitting you in the eye!!

Here's a tip I learned from a preparator: Coat the new wire brush bristles with silicone caulk and allow to cure before using. The brush lasts (bristles remain straight) longer, and the bristles are less likely to fly off. I just used a finger to force the caulk within the bristles and left a thin coat on the surface.

Great tip!

"Hints from Harry" would make a good Forum blog

[Frank Menser]

Let's see the Smilodon!!

[/quote}

Wish i could only the luck was with my hunting partner. We found one fang and 80% of it was unrecoverable due to extreme damage. Like I said above most of what we found was fragmented or crushed.

Here's a few things I did find there...

Edited December 16, 2009 by Frank Menser

[Frank Menser]

Ok so I removed the tooth from the matrix. Unfortunately the roots could not handle much contact so I lost part of them; and a piece of enamel fell off-the good news there was i was able to reattach it perfectly so there is no sign of the break. I photoed it next to a deer jaw to give scale.

[Harry Pristis]

To my eye, there is a high probability that this tooth is an upper fourth premolar (P4) from a selenodont artiodactyl, maybe a camel. Could be a deer, too, but seems too large for a deer.

* * * * *

Here's the sort of wire brushes on which I use clear silicone caulk. I do 'em a batch at a time so that I have a new brush when I need it.

[Frank Menser]

To my eye, there is a high probability that this tooth is an upper fourth premolar (P4) from a selenodont artiodactyl, maybe a camel. Could be a deer, too, but seems too large for a deer.

* * * * *

Here's the sort of wire brushes on which I use clear silicone caulk. I do 'em a batch at a time so that I have a new brush when I need it.

It's definitely larger than any of the deer tooth fossils I have. Of course there were a few species of camel-like and llama sps in the area.