Vertebra Process?

[Alex Eve]

This is a small bone scrap I found in the Dinosaur Park Formation a few years ago. I just recently took a closer look at it, and I now think it’s a vertebra process. What do you guys think? Based on the texture of the second pic, is it possible to tell what kind of animal it is? I’m thinking ceratopsian (excuse the very rough sketch)

[Troodon]

Can we see the views of the broken ends

[LordTrilobite]

Besides the broken ends like Troodon said, the photos are pretty good. And the rough drawing also really helps with showing what you mean.

It doesn't immediately strike me as a lateral process of a ceratopsian vert though.

I dunno, it's a weird shape.

[hadrosauridae]

I dont think it is.  what would be the distal end is getting wider.  I cant think of any vert process that gets wider at the tip.  Also, the proximal end just doesnt have the look that it broke away from a vert.

[Alex Eve]

3 hours ago, Troodon said:

Can we see the views of the broken ends

 

[Troodon]

I was hoping the cross-section was more symmetrical which might have said neural spine since some flare out at the distal side but no dice.   Sorry nothing jumps out.

[jpc]

I'm thinking small dino scapula...?

 

[Alex Eve]

1 hour ago, jpc said:

I'm thinking small dino scapula...?

 

That’s what I was thinking originally. Based on shape, could it possibly be maniraptoran?

[Alex Eve]

6 hours ago, Troodon said:

I was hoping the cross-section was more symmetrical which might have said neural spine since some flare out at the distal side but no dice.   Sorry nothing jumps out.

Could it potentially be a scapula?

[Troodon]

I dont see it, looks to gracile especially the end which should be a bit bulkier to interface with the coracoid.   Partial bones are tough and we don't have a lot of comparative material to look at.  In the end I dont know it might be.

[dinosaur man]

I would say this is a scapula!

[Alex Eve]

4 minutes ago, dinosaur man said:

I would say this is a scapula!

Sweet! Based on the shape, I’m thinking it might be maniraptoran of sorts. Would you agree?

[dinosaur man]

6 minutes ago, Alex Eve said:

Sweet! Based on the shape, I’m thinking it might be maniraptoran of sorts. Would you agree?

Yeah!  Possibly Stenonychosaurus! 

[Troodon]

9 hours ago, dinosaur man said:

Yeah!  Possibly Stenonychosaurus! 

Curious what comparative material have you seen that suggest its a theropod specifically aTroodontid.  

[Alex Eve]

6 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Curious what comparative material have you seen that suggest its a theropod specifically aTroodontid.  

I’ve been using Scott Hartman’s skeletal as a reference, but I’m trying to find what he used as reference for the scapula in the illustration 

[Troodon]

 

22 minutes ago, Alex Eve said:

I’ve been using Scott Hartman’s skeletal as a reference, but I’m trying to find what he used as reference for the scapula in the illustration 

I not sure any have been found in North America from a Troodontid.  Going to offer another suggestion its the proximal end of a rib given how the edges taper and flat on one side.   I sent an email to Pete Larsen to see if I can get an opinion from him.

[Alex Eve]

26 minutes ago, Troodon said:

 

I not sure any have been found in North America from a Troodontid.  Going to offer another suggestion its the proximal end of a rib given how the edges taper and flat on one side.   I sent an email to Pete Larsen to see if I can get an opinion from him.

Cool. I’ve looked at scapulae from all the different types of animals from the DPF, including juvenile hadrosaurs, ceratopsians, Ankylosaurus, and tyrannosaurs, and narrowed it down (if it is a scapula) to rather Dromaeosaurus, Saurornitholestes, or Stenonychosaurus (based on other maniraptoran scapulae)

[dinosaur man]

58 minutes ago, Alex Eve said:

Cool. I’ve looked at scapulae from all the different types of animals from the DPF, including juvenile hadrosaurs, ceratopsians, Ankylosaurus, and tyrannosaurs, and narrowed it down (if it is a scapula) to rather Dromaeosaurus, Saurornitholestes, or Stenonychosaurus (based on other maniraptoran scapulae)

Yeah but I’m not sure it being Dromaeosaurus as it didn’t look like it matched yesterday.

[Troodon]

Your initial hunch of this being Ceratopsian seems to be right on target.  Pete's response says: it appears to be a posterior rib (near the capitalism) from a ceratopsian. Approximately rib number 14.   

[Alex Eve]

3 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Your initial hunch of this being Ceratopsian seems to be right on target.  Pete's response says: it appears to be a posterior rib (near the capitalism) from a ceratopsian. Approximately rib number 14.   

I just spoke with Aaron Van Der Reest, and he thinks it’s a maniraptoran ischium, likely Saurornitholestes

[Troodon]

Shows you how hard it is to identify to partial bones.  Probably get different responses with others.  Pete does know Ceratopsian 

[Alex Eve]

1 minute ago, Troodon said:

Shows you how hard it is to identify to partial bones.  Probably get different responses with others.  Pete does know Ceratopsian 

True! Who knew one scrap could be so confusing haha

[Troodon]

Its typical of any bone fragment that does not have clear diagnostic features.  There are hundreds of bones/elements in a dinosaur and with all of the diversity especially in Campanian deposits it can be very problematic to accurately identify them.   Just find complete bones  simple...