Jump to content
Cockatoo

Ok, I See Keichousaurus Plates All The Time.

Recommended Posts

Cockatoo

In fact hundreds of them. All perfect.

And all from China.

How many are fakes? All of 'em? :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Auspex

"All" is such an absolute...but you're probably pretty close to right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Seldom

All most all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nicholas

99% of them in my opinion.

The best bet is to look for ones which have defects... looking for ones which aren't fossilized perfectly or are in an awkward position increases chances of authenticity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cris

Definitely most of them. When it comes to Chinese fossils, deal only with very trusted and knowledgeable dealers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ebrocklds

i am not saying that there are not alot of fakes. but i hav seen hundreds of these at shows and never seen one that is completely fake. most of them are decent specimens that have been destroyed by prep and painted back to look like new. these are very common fossils and it is a shame that so few are prepared with any degree of skill. i have examined and bought many over the years and i can tell you that the prep quality has gone way downhill in the last 5 years.

Brock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cockatoo

I like to attend the fossil shows here in Atlanta and see what I think are suspicious displays.

They're just too "perfect".

Now I'm a complete amateur and hope to learn a lot here.

I'll pick up a few little things I know are real.

I'll get an $8 Moroccan trilobite that's still kinda sandy and stuff.

After finding my fish part in Fla, I REALLY want to go find my own now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sundancer73

Do not trust Chinese or Hong Kong dealers.. I know first hand of fakes ranging from samurai swords to jade 'artifacts' to fossils... caveat emptor..

I have become so cynical that I (almost) refuse to believe anything is genuine that I don't find myself.. indian artifacts for example.. however, I'm hearing stories that here in Florida people are find FAKE Spanish coins.. some folks are actually seeding beaches with copies.. sheesh.. so even if you find one no guarantees...

~Mike

Edited by Sundancer73

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pleecan

Bought one of those Keichousaurus a few yrs back, thought it was a great buy...the next day the same fossil appeared on another dealer... photo was identical to the fossil I just bought....the flaws and fossil settings identical... I knew I was cooked.... you get that sick sinking feeling... and yes when the fossil arrived I examined under microscope and confirmed fossil was fabricated.... $100 lesson.... after that... have not bought another fossil from China.... I am in agreement that most of the fossils coming out of China unfortunately are fakes... sad but true. PL

Edited by pleecan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Frank Menser

post-1313-12610108199419_thumb.jpg

Here is a real one (one of two I have). Advantage being I purchased them many years ago when they were still the newest thing. One thing I have observed is that the longer a fossil is available (especially from Morocco or China) the higher odds of your getting a fake; as the sellers perfect their copying craft. When in doubt (besides the above advice) check the verts and toe bones closely. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cockatoo

Your pelvis and shoulders look "correct" to me.

Are any counterfeiters casting and firing porcelain then jumbling them in a matrix?

Or casting trilos? Thise "Russian" ones with they eyes and stuff look too awful perfect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Frank Menser

Strictly opinion here, but if you look at some of the Oklahoma Tb's which have a similar preservation you will notice the "perfection" of those too. I can't say the Russians are 100% not fakes but many are quite real.

post-1313-12610231227321_thumb.jpg

Here is another from my collection. The only alterations are that the eye stalks snapped off one when I moved so I repaired it. The cracked one was repaired before I got it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cockatoo

GREAT SPECIMENS!

One day I'll have one of those!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cockatoo

You know, I don't mind a restoration. Just tell me up front.

I don't mind saving money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Frank Menser

Here's the other keich This is about 6".

post-1313-1261070963642_thumb.jpgpost-1313-12610709465274_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pleecan

Very nice collection Frank! PL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Redlichia

Very nice original examples Frank,congrats!

Yes of course there are several fake of Kei reptiles and other fossils from these zones to cheap value,many are carved in the slabs,several are only neck and head and the preparator make the body with the abrasive utensils from the same slab,but these are easy to see that are fake,the bones are carved and painted without a shape of the bones,the fakes are also in the slabs with the cracks in calcite,usually for some of these a percentage of the body is carved,the same for some of the Triassic fishes,others are two different pieces and glued together for make only one fossil,for the tile/body neck/head,etc..A good system for check is the UV light (see above the good example of the other member),but if are carved or for the examples for the trilobites,if there is a special resin or glue (anti UV light),you can't see the difference of the colour under the UV light,but is all with one colour... so you need to check with the 10x lens under the day light (sun) or under and near to the neon or normal light,so you can see the bubbles or the limit of the glue or resin near to the original parts.

This is a my example 100% original,prepped with KHO,is a long work,but is perfect and in part disassembled for the fossilization,if you have luck to find an unprepped example,you can try to prep with this slow method,so you have the original piece for the 100%,you need to check before the shape of the body if is complete,under the thin surface of the slab.

post-1409-12610769168622_thumb.jpg

post-1409-12610769358407_thumb.jpg

post-1409-12610769534326_thumb.jpg

post-1409-12610769743238_thumb.jpg

post-1409-12610770162629_thumb.jpg

post-1409-12610770565046_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pleecan

Very nice original examples Frank,congrats!

Yes of course there are several fake of Kei reptiles and other fossils from these zones to cheap value,many are carved in the slabs,several are only neck and head and the preparator make the body with the abrasive utensils from the same slab,but these are easy to see that are fake,the bones are carved and painted without a shape of the bones,the fakes are also in the slabs with the cracks in calcite,usually for some of these a percentage of the body is carved,the same for some of the Triassic fishes,others are two different pieces and glued together for make only one fossil,for the tile/body neck/head,etc..A good system for check is the UV light (see above the good example of the other member),but if are carved or for the examples for the trilobites,if there is a special resin or glue (anti UV light),you can't see the difference of the colour under the UV light,but is all with one colour... so you need to check with the 10x lens under the day light (sun) or under and near to the neon or normal light,so you can see the bubbles or the limit of the glue or resin near to the original parts.

This is a my example 100% original,prepped with KHO,is a long work,but is perfect and in part disassembled for the fossilization,if you have luck to find an unprepped example,you can try to prep with this slow method,so you have the original piece for the 100%,you need to check before the shape of the body if is complete,under the thin surface of the slab.

Really nice prep work! PL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raimo

Very nice original examples Frank,congrats!

Yes of course there are several fake of Kei reptiles and other fossils from these zones to cheap value,many are carved in the slabs,several are only neck and head and the preparator make the body with the abrasive utensils from the same slab,but these are easy to see that are fake,the bones are carved and painted without a shape of the bones,the fakes are also in the slabs with the cracks in calcite,usually for some of these a percentage of the body is carved,the same for some of the Triassic fishes,others are two different pieces and glued together for make only one fossil,for the tile/body neck/head,etc..A good system for check is the UV light (see above the good example of the other member),but if are carved or for the examples for the trilobites,if there is a special resin or glue (anti UV light),you can't see the difference of the colour under the UV light,but is all with one colour... so you need to check with the 10x lens under the day light (sun) or under and near to the neon or normal light,so you can see the bubbles or the limit of the glue or resin near to the original parts.

This is a my example 100% original,prepped with KHO,is a long work,but is perfect and in part disassembled for the fossilization,if you have luck to find an unprepped example,you can try to prep with this slow method,so you have the original piece for the 100%,you need to check before the shape of the body if is complete,under the thin surface of the slab.

Hi Redlichia,

I have an unprepared keichousaurus so I would try to prepare it with chemical.

Please will you give me more informations and details about "KHO metod" ?

In the past I prepared ones with very small tips under microscope, but it's very long and heavy work...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
siteseer

I saw a few dealers in Tucson with numerous specimens each. I was at a friend's booth when a customer asked for help picking one out of another dealer's stock, admitting he didn't know what to look for. Like you and Nicholas advised, we looked carefully at the bones and found two good ones for him to choose from. My friend ended up buying one too - one that was incompletely prepped (he's going to finish it).

When in doubt (besides the above advice) check the verts and toe bones closely. ;)

I haven't been examining these over the years but had a chance to this year at Tucson. I think you're right about many "fakes" being just bad prep jobs. Some specimens look like they've been ground down into the bone. Some of them have skulls and necks that are pretty much gone but most of the rest of the body is there (some look like mix n' match; some maybe just from the vagaries of erosion - it would be interesting to see a paper on the deposit). It's like coins, guns, and historical documents, you really have to know what you're looking at with fossils especially when the sticker says $100 or more.

i am not saying that there are not alot of fakes. but i hav seen hundreds of these at shows and never seen one that is completely fake. most of them are decent specimens that have been destroyed by prep and painted back to look like new. these are very common fossils and it is a shame that so few are prepared with any degree of skill. i have examined and bought many over the years and i can tell you that the prep quality has gone way downhill in the last 5 years.

Brock

Edited by siteseer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sinopaleus

i agree, huge number of fakes of keichos from china. possibly becuz there arent enough real ones or maybe they are attempting to replace real ones in illegal export for fakes. idk, but i am sure that there are a ton of fakes lol, even in china ^_^

here's a good tutorial.

http://www.paleodirect.com/fakekeichousaurfossils.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aeronaut

Thanks for a very informative discussion.

I just bought a Keichousaurus and was disappointed when it arrived and was obviously fake, painted on. So I removed most of the paint (which washed off easily, just black acrylic). Imagine my surprise to find a real Keichousaurus fossil under there! So a poor but complete real fossil had been painted over to look clearer.

Think about it: the easily saleable Keichousauruses are running out, so they're mining the ones that they previously considered not good enough to sell, and then painting them to become saleable. All fossil deposits are like that, good ones plus poor ones you can't be bothered digging out.

The genius of the painting is that it also enables them to bypass the export ban: if an official ever questions them, they say they're painted reproductions. You've got to admire the ingenuity of the Chinese!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TMNH

One person brought in a keichousaur when I was visiting the ROM's fossil ID Clinic. I felt kind of bad for them when it was pointed out that it was peeling right off the rock. :laughing on the floor 24:

The Rom paleontologists said if it wasn't over $1000 in price (the one that was brought in was somthing like $50), it was almost certainly a fake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DLB

post-4740-0-38502500-1309327971_thumb.jpg

here's mine and it's a baby one and i had a paleontologist tell me that it was real!!! so i liked what i heard and it looks real to me !!!

Edited by DLB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DLB
post-4740-0-08003100-1309328232_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×