Monkey or croc tooth?

[MrBones]

Hello, I recently found this small tooth (just under 1cm long).

At first, I thought it might just be a weird crocodile tooth, since those are common here in Ruwais, Abu Dhabi, but upon further inspection, I saw that the tooth was hollow, unlike crocodile's teeth. Also, it lacked the vertical stripes. I am not sure what this could be, it has a small hooked section at the very tip, and inside of the curve there seems to be signs of wear. I hope it could be a monkey tooth, as they are exceptionally rare (only 2 monkey teeth have been found in all of Arabia), but it could well be some other animal.

[MrBones]

[MrBones]

Forgot to add, I think this comes from the miocene era.

[Darktooth]

It looks very similar to a Basking shark tooth.

[MrBones]

1 minute ago, Darktooth said:

It looks very similar to a Basking shark tooth.

It does! But it's hollow inside, and doesn't have a similar root.

[caterpillar]

Maybe fish

[digit]

I got the "fish" vibe as well when looking at this. I see a lot of fish teeth picking through Miocene-Pleistocene matrix here in Florida. At least that would be a possible avenue of research. I would think that monkey teeth would look more primate-like with non-hollow roots.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[MrBones]

8 minutes ago, digit said:

I got the "fish" vibe as well when looking at this. I see a lot of fish teeth picking through Miocene-Pleistocene matrix here in Florida. At least that would be a possible avenue of research. I would think that monkey teeth would look more primate-like with non-hollow roots.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Are fish teeth hollow? I haven't found any here yet, so I wouldn't know. From what I can find on the internet there where mainly freashwater catfish here, and they have tiny teeth.

[digit]

Quite a number of the ones I find that are round are indeed conical with hollow roots. Others like Barracuda teeth are flat and solid so there are a great diversity of forms. Here's a jaw from a modern snapper (Lutjanidae) showing conical teeth (but not showing the hollow conical roots).

 

 

Many fish teeth tend to have densely enameled tips (as can be seen in some of the teeth in the image above). This is often a good clue that you are looking at a fish tooth but far from conclusive as not all fish teeth share that trait. I'm not definitely saying that your specimen is fish but it is an avenue of research that you should explore and not discount on your search for the true identity. When you've got a confirmed answer please post it here so we can all learn.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[MrBones]

I searched a bit on the web, and the snapper teeth seem to be very similar!

This is a bit strange, since the environment was mainly freshwater, but the spot where I found this tooth was close to the sea, so I suppose it might have gotten there somehow.

[digit]

Don't consider snapper to be even a suggestion of the possible ID. Merely showing these as an example of what some fish teeth look like. May not end up being a fish tooth but an area to explore while you are researching. The best help is usually to try to find a faunal list of things that have already been found in the general area or contact local experts who are familiar with the things that turn up there. Mysteries can quite easily be solved by someone who has seen a lot of similar specimens previously.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Boesse]

Triggerfish have teeth somewhat resembling this, and are known from Miocene deposits in the tropics.

[MrBones]

18 minutes ago, digit said:

Don't consider snapper to be even a suggestion of the possible ID. Merely showing these as an example of what some fish teeth look like. May not end up being a fish tooth but an area to explore while you are researching. The best help is usually to try to find a faunal list of things that have already been found in the general area or contact local experts who are familiar with the things that turn up there. Mysteries can quite easily be solved by someone who has seen a lot of similar specimens previously.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

There's a website on all the known fossils found in my area, but it is quite limited, since there is not a lot zooarchaeological activity here. Like I said, I was only able to find freshwater catfish. I understand that the snapper is not the id, but it was interesting to see the similarities between the teeth. Also, thanks for informing me more on fish teeth!

[digit]

Agreed. I considered this as well. Only a few months back I was able to show photos of a bunch of odd teeth that I'd been finding in Pliocene matrix I've been picking through from Florida. When I finally was able to show this to an expert in fossil fish teeth she instantly wrote back that my specimens were Balistidae (triggerfish) teeth. The key to a proper ID is sometimes just finding the right person. For years I've said that it is not important to know everything and much easier to just know others who do.

 

The hooked cusp on the tooth in question reminds me of other teeth I've seen before (both fish and non-fish) but I cannot think of the details of where I've seen something similar. Triggerfish teeth are highly derived and tend to have a beveled occlusal surface and the enamel tends to not run completely down the lingual side of the tooth as it attached oddly more to the front of the jaw than "into" the jaw. Here is a recent discussion on the forum and a link to a useful paper with some good photos of triggerfish teeth.

 

 

5 minutes ago, MrBones said:

There's a website on all the known fossils found in my area, but it is quite limited, since there is not a lot zooarchaeological activity here. Like I said, I was only able to find freshwater catfish. I understand that the snapper is not the id, but it was interesting to see the similarities between the teeth. Also, thanks for informing me more on fish teeth!

As far as I know catfish (at least the ones I'm familiar with) tend to have hundreds of very tiny pin-like teeth lining the upper and lower jaws. You should be able to find images online with a simple search.

 

Always tricky to ID things when there is not a lot of paleontological activity in your area.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[MrBones]

7 minutes ago, digit said:

Agreed. I considered this as well. Only a few months back I was able to show photos of a bunch of odd teeth that I'd been finding in Pliocene matrix I've been picking through from Florida. When I finally was able to show this to an expert in fossil fish teeth she instantly wrote back that my specimens were Balistidae (triggerfish) teeth. The key to a proper ID is sometimes just finding the right person. For years I've said that it is not important to know everything and much easier to just know others who do.

 

The hooked cusp on the tooth in question reminds me of other teeth I've seen before (both fish and non-fish) but I cannot think of the details of where I've seen something similar. Triggerfish teeth are highly derived and tend to have a beveled occlusal surface and the enamel tends to not run completely down the lingual side of the tooth as it attached oddly more to the front of the jaw than "into" the jaw. Here is a recent discussion on the forum and a link to a useful paper with some good photos of triggerfish teeth.

 

 

As far as I know catfish (at least the ones I'm familiar with) tend to have hundreds of very tiny pin-like teeth lining the upper and lower jaws. You should be able to find images online with a simple search.

 

Always tricky to ID things when there is not a lot of paleontological activity in your area.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Thanks for all the effort!

As for "consulting an expert" I have met with one of the head zooarcheologists of the region, Dr. Mark Jonathan Beach. He showed me the website that I mentioned earlier with all the known fossils found in the region, that he helped make.

[digit]

Send him photos of your find and see if he has an opinion (share it here if you do hear something).

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken