hokietech96 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 I have been spending the past covid months going through Lee Creek matix. I dont know what I would have done without it. I have found hundreds of things and still have a ton to go through. Since I post pictures last I took the advice given and purchased an aultrasonic cleaner. WOW, what a difference it makes. Thanks for the input on that @MarcoSr @Al Dente @ClearLake @CocoAnyway here are 10 unique finds that I need some guidence on. I appreciate any feedback! 1. Is this a fish tooth? To me it looks more reptilian. Dare I say Croc tooth. I know its not but I am still searching for my first. Plus I have heard they are super rare for Lee Creek. 2. The only thing that slightly looks close to this tooth is a Bramble Shark. But I think this is going to end up as some type of symphyseal tooth. 3. Smooth Hound Shark 4. Never saw anything like this before. I am assuming its fish 5. Alien tooth or another Symphyseal tooth 6. Just cool looking and small 1-2mm 7. Fish Jaw but what kind? about 2-3mm 8. Next two pictures are NOT the same tooth. I found two that look very similar. Pinfish? 9. 10. Fish tooth? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 @Al Dente and @sixgill pete would be more familiar with Lee Creek material. My thoughts below: 1. Is this a fish tooth? To me it looks more reptilian. Dare I say Croc tooth. I know its not but I am still searching for my first. Plus I have heard they are super rare for Lee Creek. Looks worn enough that it could be a tooth or just a bone fragment (no clear enamel surface that I can see). The shape is reminiscent of some fish teeth and even croc/gator teeth but the base "root" does not look hollow as I'd expect in a gator (or even fish tooth). 2. The only thing that slightly looks close to this tooth is a Bramble Shark. But I think this is going to end up as some type of symphyseal tooth. I don't know how common Echinorhinus are in Lee Creek (if they are even present). Not a taxon I'm familiar with as I still haven't managed to pull one out of Cookiecutter Creek. If it is symphyseal it would be parasymphyseal--a pair rather than a single tooth at the midline (symphysis) of the jaw line. Single symphyseals tend to be symmetrical but parasymphyseals do not have to be. Could also be a very posterior tooth (they are often very angled and distorted) 3. Smooth Hound Shark I'd want to see this from the other side as well. Smoothhound Shark (Mustelus sp.) teeth look very similar to tiny ray teeth like stingray (Dasyatis sp.) teeth. They tend to have a uvula on the front of the tooth and fine wrinkles on the edge of the enamel where it meets the root. I see some crenulations along the top of the tooth but it is a bit dark to make out clearly. 4. Never saw anything like this before. I am assuming its fish Yup. Looks like a phyllodontid tooth plate. These pharyngeal (throat) teeth are overlapping round "buttons" cemented together and not arranged in neat rows like the maxillary teeth. Fun to find and you'll now recognize these clusters as well as the individual loose teeth you may spot that are kinda shaped like red blood vessels. 5. Alien tooth or another Symphyseal tooth Always go with the "alien" option first--it worked for Sigourney Weaver. It's a really odd one with a lot more root than enameled cusp. The angle of the root reminds me of Hemipristis symphyseals (though their blades are usually much much longer). 6. Just cool looking and small 1-2mm I find lots of bivalve and gastropod steinkerns (internal molds) while picking micro-matrix. 7. Fish Jaw but what kind? about 2-3mm Pretty cool jaw fragment. I'd defer to those who know the faunal list of Lee Creek much better than me. 8.& 9. Next two pictures are NOT the same tooth. I found two that look very similar. Pinfish? Not quite the right shape for the bifurcated teeth of Pinfish. They tend to be symmetrical and have more narrow cylindrical roots. These might be side cusp fragments of larger shark teeth. 10. Fish tooth? Yup. Possibly something like a Jack (Lutjanidae) but I'm quite novice at identifying all but the most distinctive fish teeth. Micro-matrix picking is a perfect remedy for being cooped-up inside. I've been picking steadily for several years now (mostly South Florida and Cookiecutter Creek). Now that I'm up in Gainesville, I'm able to volunteer with the FLMNH and I'm picking through bags and bags of micro-matrix from the Montbrook site. Lots of cool surprises (and way way too many Dasyatis teeth). Came across a really nice jaw from a wrasse (Labridae) a while back (scale is 0.5 mm). Cheers. -Ken 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 This is probably a lateral/posterior Carcharhinus tooth. Towards the back of the jaw the crowns become more squat and point towards the rear. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 This is fish material, probably the front end of a burrfish jaw. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Part of a crab claw. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 59 minutes ago, hokietech96 said: . Next two pictures are NOT the same tooth. I found two that look very similar. Pinfish? The first one looks like a posterior tooth of a sand tiger. The second is a broken shark tooth with a side cusp. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, hokietech96 said: Smooth Hound Shark Looks like the crown of a Dasyatis tooth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Al Dente said: Looks like the crown of a Dasyatis tooth. @digit Here are more and maybe better pictures of what I thought was a smooth hound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 @digit @Al Dente Thank you so much for the great feedback!! Much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 23 minutes ago, digit said: Cheers. -Ken That really a cool find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 27 minutes ago, Al Dente said: This is fish material, probably the front end of a burrfish jaw. Yup. I can see that as well. 27 minutes ago, Al Dente said: Part of a crab claw. Duh! These always make me want to think jaw when they are the "teeth" on the edge of a crab claw. I've brightened these images (tough to take a photo of black fossils on a white background)--consider getting some gray construction paper for photos. The first image (barely) shows the granular "ornamentation" on the occlusal surface of a Dasyatis tooth. Mustelus are smooth and have no such texturing. The very pronounced edge between the top and front of the tooth is also found on Dasyatis and not Mustelus. Here are some Mustelus from Cookiecutter Creek. You can see the prominent uvula and the wrinkles on the enamel edges. Cheers. -Ken 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, digit said: Yup. I can see that as well. Duh! These always make me want to think jaw when they are the "teeth" on the edge of a crab claw. I've brightened these images (tough to take a photo of black fossils on a white background)--consider getting some gray construction paper for photos. The first image (barely) shows the granular "ornamentation" on the occlusal surface of a Dasyatis tooth. Mustelus are smooth and have no such texturing. The very pronounced edge between the top and front of the tooth is also found on Dasyatis and not Mustelus. Here are some Mustelus from Cookiecutter Creek. You can see the prominent uvula and the wrinkles on the enamel edges. Cheers. -Ken Great information! Thank you so much! I have to say, I started laughing when you brought up the gray construction paper. My very first ever picture for the forum I took back in August was on white paper. You wrote the exact comment about the gray paper. I have used gray paper ever since until this last picture. Haha. I tried to sneak one by you. Thanks again for all the valuable information! I am going to look through what I think are ray teeth again and see if there are any that look like your mustelus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 2 hours ago, hokietech96 said: Great information! Thank you so much! I have to say, I started laughing when you brought up the gray construction paper. My very first ever picture for the forum I took back in August was on white paper. You wrote the exact comment about the gray paper. I have used gray paper ever since until this last picture. Haha. I tried to sneak one by you. Thanks again for all the valuable information! Hah! It does make a difference. You'll see the error of your ways and join the church of the gray construction paper yet.... (Filing for non-profit status now....) I use the gray background both for photography and for picking under my camera-microscope setup. Much better to reduce the contrast in brightness between the subject and the background. In fact, I need to go pick up some new paper plates, gray construction paper and a new can of spray contact adhesive to construct some new picking plates--my old ones are getting a bit grimy and worn. I found a bowl that is the proper diameter for the inside flat surface of the paper plates I'm using. I mark and cut out the paper, spray the back with contact adhesive, and lay it into the paper plate to convert it from holding comestibles to micro-matrix. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, digit said: Hah! It does make a difference. You'll see the error of your ways and join the church of the gray construction paper yet.... (Filing for non-profit status now....) I use the gray background both for photography and for picking under my camera-microscope setup. Much better to reduce the contrast in brightness between the subject and the background. In fact, I need to go pick up some new paper plates, gray construction paper and a new can of spray contact adhesive to construct some new picking plates--my old ones are getting a bit grimy and worn. I found a bowl that is the proper diameter for the inside flat surface of the paper plates I'm using. I mark and cut out the paper, spray the back with contact adhesive, and lay it into the paper plate to convert it from holding comestibles to micro-matrix. Cheers. -Ken Go to a paint store and pick up some large paper paint samples of various colors to use as a background with smaller fossils. I think that I saw that there was a Church of the Gray Construction Paper opening near me next door to the Our Lady of Perpetual Motion Cathedral. My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 5:11 PM, digit said: Here are some Mustelus from Cookiecutter Creek. You can see the prominent uvula and the wrinkles on the enamel edges. Cheers. -Ken Hi Ken. I wanted to revisit this post because I found this in the Lee Creek matrix yesterday. I was all excited thinking I found my first Mustelus. But instead I think I found my first Rhinopteridae 3MM? Can you take a look and see if I am correct? I really appreciate it. The Mustelus seems to be eluding me. I just started on the other half of the matrix so I still have a shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 @Al Dente is one of the go-to folks for identifying micro-fossils from Lee Creek micro-matrix. He'll be able to identify the item above with more authority than I could muster. The top looks quite worn but if I spotted this in micro-matrix from Florida I'd be thinking along the lines of one of the hexagonal edge teeth from the sides of a myliobatid (eagle) ray. From what I understand the Mustelus teeth in the Lee Creek micro-matrix are much smaller than we see in Florida locations. Our whoppers down here tip the scales with their mighty size of around 1.5-2.0 mm whereas the Lee Creek specimens apparently are more on the scale of 0.7-0.8 mm. Your search image may be too large or you may be searching in matrix that is too coarse to contain these. When you finally spot one and get the search image locked in you'll never miss another one. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, digit said: The top looks quite worn but if I spotted this in micro-matrix from Florida I'd be thinking along the lines of one of the hexagonal edge teeth from the sides of a myliobatid (eagle) ray. That was my first impression on this tooth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 hours ago, hokietech96 said: The Mustelus seems to be eluding me. I just started on the other half of the matrix so I still have a shot! What size screen are you using? It might be too big to catch Mustelus. Almost all the Lee Creek Mustelus I’ve found have been smaller than 1 millimeter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokietech96 Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 @Al Dente @digit You guys are the best. This is my first eagle ray so that is cool. I ran the matrix through a screen and saved everything to go through the later so hopefully I will find the mustelus in that batch of stuff. I still have half the batch to run through the screen. This is the super small stuff so far: Thanks again for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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