unknown item from Hungry Hollow (Middle Devonian)

[Monica]

Hello there!

 

I was just organizing my Hungry Hollow fossils when I noticed this odd object.  It looks like a small jaw with teeth, but I know that bivalves have "teeth" along their hinge so it could be that.  Does anyone out there recognize the identity of this little piece?  It's from the South Pit of Hungry Hollow near Arkona, Ontario and it is from the Middle Devonian.

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Monica

 

 

[Fossildude19]

Hey Monica,

 

That's a neat little item.  

Not sure it is a fish jaw, as it looks a bit too uniform.  

It might be some sort of spine, though.   

 

Maybe @jdp  will have some ideas? 

[RuMert]

Cool find, looks more like jaw IMHO

[minnbuckeye]

 Could it be a piece of the hinge area of a brachiopod or bivalve like this? (though I hope RuMert is correct)

 

[daves64]

Might also be a worn ray barb. Dunno, just tossing my $0.02 in. 

[Fossildude19]

15 minutes ago, daves64 said:

Might also be a worn ray barb. Dunno, just tossing my $0.02 in. 

No rays in the Devonian.   

[Monica]

Thanks for chiming in, everyone!

 

Because the age is mid-Devonian, it won't be a ray barb since they hadn't yet evolved at that time (although it does definitely resemble one!).  (Tim @Fossildude19 beat me to it )

 

As for what it is - I really don't know. 

 

It could definitely be a bivalve's "teeth", but most bivalves that I've found at Hungry Hollow are really quite small, so I'm not so sure that that's what it is (however I'm definitely not ruling it out since I've certainly not found everything there is to find at HH - perhaps there are larger bivalves lurking there ).

 

Brachiopods at HH can be quite long (e.g., Mucrospirifer) - do they have a hinge with "teeth" like bivalves do?  I'll tag @Tidgy's Dad and @Peat Burns because they definitely know more about brachiopods than I do!

 

As for a jaw - I'm also not sure that that's what it is because the "teeth" don't look different from the "jaw."  Scolecodont teeth don't look different from the jaw that they're on, and scolecodonts (polychaete worm jaws) are found at HH, but the ones that I've found in the Toronto area are always a very shiny black whereas this object is more of a dull black - does the lustre of the object really determine whether or not it's a scolecodont?  I don't know, but perhaps someone out there does know!

 

To help with identification, I should perhaps mention that there is a brachiopod valve on the same rock that was previously identified as Pholidostrophia nacrea by the great Tim @Fossildude19 - here's the brachiopod on the same rock as the mystery object:

 

I'll tag @Kane, @Northern Sharks, @crinus, @Shamalama, and @Guest11596 - I believe they've all hunted HH and may have seen something like this before. 

[minnbuckeye]

I thought Pholidostrophia nacrea was a Strophmena!!! Learned something. Are those epibionts on it?? Or just the natural shell? I enlarged it but couldn't tell for sure.

 

Mike

[daves64]

2 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

No rays in the Devonian.   

I DID say my $0.02 ... and my 2 cents is usually worth about as much as a plugged nickel. 

[Northern Sharks]

I' assuming that the "teeth" are only on one side of the object??? Seems a bit large to be a scolecodont.

 

[Monica]

2 hours ago, minnbuckeye said:

I thought Pholidostrophia nacrea was a Strophmena!!! Learned something. Are those epibionts on it?? Or just the natural shell? I enlarged it but couldn't tell for sure.

 

Mike

 

Hey Mike!  No, I don't think those are epibionts - what we're seeing is the inside of one of the valves.

 

Here's a link to a similar find as mine: 

 

49 minutes ago, daves64 said:

I DID say my $0.02 ... and my 2 cents is usually worth about as much as a plugged nickel. 

 

I often misidentify specimens so my 2 cents aren't always worth 2 cents 

 

8 minutes ago, Northern Sharks said:

I' assuming that the "teeth" are only on one side of the object??? Seems a bit large to be a scolecodont.

 

 

Yes, scolecodonts are usually very small.  I'm only considering it as a possibility because I found a few large ones in the Toronto area that were 5-6 mm long, so it is unlikely, but possible.

(Here's a link to an interesting article about "giant" scolecodonts that were found in northern Ontario: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep43061)

[Tidgy's Dad]

Your Pholidostrophia nacrea is the interior of the brachial valve. 

The pedicle valve has teeth to fit the pits along the hinge line. 

Your mystery object could be part of this hinge line. 

[Monica]

Thanks for the input, Adam @Tidgy's Dad! 

 

@Malcolmt has offered to have a look at it under his microscope the next time I head over to his place so the mystery will be solved then, I think