Jump to content

Shark teeth identification


Raihan

Recommended Posts

Hello!

My name is Raihan & I’m from Indonesia. I’m kinda new at this shark teeth collecting, I have several teeth & unfortunately I’m a little bit confused about their id. Can anyone tell me about what kind of shark teeth are these? All of them were found in Madura island, Indonesia. Here are the questions.

 

1) Are these upper & lower teeth from a bull shark? Or it could be from another Carcharhinus sp.?

 

2) Are these lemons? And if it so, is it N.acutidens? 

 

3) Does anyone know the exact species on these fossilized lemon shark teeth?

 

 

Thanks!

43F851BC-CB32-47CC-824D-B528C73F36FF.jpeg

A9E85548-FA21-4624-BA30-04283A8DF4AB.jpeg

07EA1495-23D1-463A-A4D9-DF9A0DFAC93B.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, Raihan. Welcome to the forum! 

1. Definitely Carcharhinus uppers and lowers. It's very difficult to differentiate between species. I would also suggest taking pictures with a ruler or something for scale. Could be bull or dusky.

2. Those do look like lemons. If they have fine serrations on the blade, probably N. acutidens. Otherwise I would vote N. brevirostris. If you know, were the modern teeth from sharks caught near Indonesia? Knowing the answer could help with id as the species live in different ranges.

3. Same as 2. I don't want to say N. brevirostris straight away, because I suppose it's possible that their habitats/ranges could've changed over time.

Hope that helps.

 

@MarcoSr is much more knowledgable.

  • I found this Informative 2

"Argumentation cannot suffice for the discovery of new work, since the subtlety of Nature is greater many times than the subtlety of argument." - Carl Sagan

"I was born not knowing and have had only a little time to change that here and there." - Richard Feynman

 

Collections: Hell Creek Microsite | Hell Creek/Lance | Dinosaurs | Sharks | SquamatesPost Oak Creek | North Sulphur RiverLee Creek | Aguja | Permian | Devonian | Triassic | Harding Sandstone

Instagram: @thephysicist_tff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, ThePhysicist said:

Hi, Raihan. Welcome to the forum! 

1. Definitely Carcharhinus uppers and lowers. It's very difficult to differentiate between species. I would also suggest taking pictures with a ruler or something for scale. Could be bull or dusky.

2. Those do look like lemons. If they have fine serrations on the blade, probably N. acutidens. Otherwise I would vote N. brevirostris. If you know, were the modern teeth from sharks caught near Indonesia? Knowing the answer could help with id as the species live in different ranges.

3. Same as 2. I don't want to say N. brevirostris straight away, because I suppose it's possible that their habitats/ranges could've changed over time.

Hope that helps.

 

@MarcoSr is much more knowledgable.

 

 

With respect to 1, below are pictures of extant dentitions of Bull (Carcharhinus leucas) and Dusky (Carcharhinus obscurus) sharks from J-elasmo that you can compare your teeth to. Note there is a good amount of variation in the tooth features in different dentitions from the same species and overlap of tooth features between the species.  Truthfully the teeth are so similar it is very difficult to tell them apart from pictures.

 

Bull shark (Carcharhinus leucas):

 

5f28085b9249e_CarcharhinusleucasOmejirozameBullshark.thumb.jpg.04c539d3562835d0fd08e1a003756ca9.jpg

 

 

Dusky shark (Carcharhinus obscurus):

 

5f28085d575b4_CarcharhinusobscurusDotabukaDuskyshark.thumb.jpg.b188df3eab5ece02c0321b3a2c85ce8b.jpg

 

 

With respect to 3, the ranges of the two extant lemon shark species (see below from Ebert 2013) are very different.  If the fossil species had the same range as the extant two species, where your teeth were found would be a good help in the teeth id.

 

Negaprion  acutidens range:

 

5f280740a05ee_Negaprionacutidensrange.jpg.63c295bdb75643ea1c851f4712bd3e2b.jpg

 

Negaprion  brevirostris range:

 

5f2807425a4b1_Negaprionbrevirostrisrange.jpg.3ef9ca3d508d2de2448a1373d83a9b90.jpg

 

 

 

Below is an extant dentition from J-elasmo to compare your teeth to.   The teeth of extant Negaprion acutidens and Negaprion brevirostris have very similar features.  Plus serrations on the teeth can change based upon the size/age of the shark.  See excerpts from Compagno 1984 below:

 

Negaprion brevirostris dentition:

 

5f2809c9ba5bd_NegaprionbrevirostrisNisi-remonzameLemonshark.thumb.jpg.06aadce8f95ec68b5e9becc0ad48349c.jpg

 

 

Negaprion  acutidens:

image.png.3d23cfa833d7fd71f3695330526b6a06.png  image.png.ce35aaa6915edcf9498eaf2520ceb968.png

 

Negaprion  brevirostris:

 

image.png.88a5b247ccd37fc63f5c96f9d45083ae.png  image.png.3ed0411bc61087afb8498f58d52b3bea.png

 

 

 

 

With respect to 2, the pictures of the cutting edges are not large and clear enough to try to id the teeth.  There are a number of different genera/species that they could be.

 

 

Marco Sr.

  • I found this Informative 8

"Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day."

My family fossil website     Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros     My Extant Shark Jaw Collection

image.png.9a941d70fb26446297dbc9dae7bae7ed.png image.png.41c8380882dac648c6131b5bc1377249.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/3/2020 at 10:18 AM, ThePhysicist said:

Hi, Raihan. Welcome to the forum! 

1. Definitely Carcharhinus uppers and lowers. It's very difficult to differentiate between species. I would also suggest taking pictures with a ruler or something for scale. Could be bull or dusky.

2. Those do look like lemons. If they have fine serrations on the blade, probably N. acutidens. Otherwise I would vote N. brevirostris. If you know, were the modern teeth from sharks caught near Indonesia? Knowing the answer could help with id as the species live in different ranges.

3. Same as 2. I don't want to say N. brevirostris straight away, because I suppose it's possible that their habitats/ranges could've changed over time.

Hope that helps.

 

@MarcoSr is much more knowledgable.

Okay thanks for the information, these lemons were found in Madura Island, Indonesia. The number 2 teeth doesn’t have any serrations on it’s blade, but they do have serrations on their shoulder. That’s the one im confused on, so some people also said that these are lower teeth from Carcharhinus species

 

And IF it’s a lemon, im also agree that it would be N.acutidens, since their distribution is around Indonesia

Edited by Raihan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/3/2020 at 8:08 PM, MarcoSr said:

 

 

With respect to 1, below are pictures of extant dentitions of Bull (Carcharhinus leucas) and Dusky (Carcharhinus obscurus) sharks from J-elasmo that you can compare your teeth to. Note there is a good amount of variation in the tooth features in different dentitions from the same species and overlap of tooth features between the species.  Truthfully the teeth are so similar it is very difficult to tell them apart from pictures.

 

Bull shark (Carcharhinus leucas):

 

5f28085b9249e_CarcharhinusleucasOmejirozameBullshark.thumb.jpg.04c539d3562835d0fd08e1a003756ca9.jpg

 

 

Dusky shark (Carcharhinus obscurus):

 

5f28085d575b4_CarcharhinusobscurusDotabukaDuskyshark.thumb.jpg.b188df3eab5ece02c0321b3a2c85ce8b.jpg

 

 

With respect to 3, the ranges of the two extant lemon shark species (see below from Ebert 2013) are very different.  If the fossil species had the same range as the extant two species, where your teeth were found would be a good help in the teeth id.

 

Negaprion  acutidens range:

 

5f280740a05ee_Negaprionacutidensrange.jpg.63c295bdb75643ea1c851f4712bd3e2b.jpg

 

Negaprion  brevirostris range:

 

5f2807425a4b1_Negaprionbrevirostrisrange.jpg.3ef9ca3d508d2de2448a1373d83a9b90.jpg

 

 

 

Below is an extant dentition from J-elasmo to compare your teeth to.   The teeth of extant Negaprion acutidens and Negaprion brevirostris have very similar features.  Plus serrations on the teeth can change based upon the size/age of the shark.  See excerpts from Compagno 1984 below:

 

Negaprion brevirostris dentition:

 

5f2809c9ba5bd_NegaprionbrevirostrisNisi-remonzameLemonshark.thumb.jpg.06aadce8f95ec68b5e9becc0ad48349c.jpg

 

 

Negaprion  acutidens:

image.png.3d23cfa833d7fd71f3695330526b6a06.png  image.png.ce35aaa6915edcf9498eaf2520ceb968.png

 

Negaprion  brevirostris:

 

image.png.88a5b247ccd37fc63f5c96f9d45083ae.png  image.png.3ed0411bc61087afb8498f58d52b3bea.png

 

 

 

 

With respect to 2, the pictures of the cutting edges are not large and clear enough to try to id the teeth.  There are a number of different genera/species that they could be.

 

 

Marco Sr.

Okay thank you for the explanation, so helping.

 

I just wanna add that all of those teeth were found in Indonesia, Madura Island to be precise. So my conclusion for number 1 they are all bull (?). Since dusky are nowhere to be found in Indonesia.

 

For number 2, im still quite confused either it’s a lemon or a lower teeth from Carcharhinus sp. Their shoulders are serrated, while their blade isnt. I would also considered that those would be N.acutidens if those teeth really are lemons. Since the other extant species of lemon shark doesn’t live anywhere in Indonesia (according to the images you provided)

 

For number 3, yes those fossils were also found in Madura. So is it safe to say that those are from N.acutidens? I’ve google the N.eurybathrodon’s distribution range & Indonesia isnt one of them.

Edited by Raihan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Raihan said:

Okay thank you for the explanation, so helping.

 

I just wanna add that all of those teeth were found in Indonesia, Madura Island to be precise. So my conclusion for number 1 they are all bull (?). Since dusky are nowhere to be found in Indonesia.

 

For number 2, im still quite confused either it’s a lemon or a lower teeth from Carcharhinus sp. Their shoulders are serrated, while their blade isnt. I would also considered that those would be N.acutidens if those teeth really are lemons. Since the other extant species of lemon shark doesn’t live anywhere in Indonesia (according to the images you provided)

 

For number 3, yes those fossils were also found in Madura. So is it safe to say that those are from N.acutidens? I’ve google the N.eurybathrodon’s distribution range & Indonesia isnt one of them.

 

For 1, below are the ranges of C. Leucas and C. Obscurus from Voigt Weber 2011.  Bull sharks are in Indonesian waters and Dusky sharks are not.  So if the teeth came from Indonesia (Indonesian waters) they are most likely Bull shark teeth.

 

C. Leucas:

 

5f2b2c454e96b_CLeucasgeodistributionVoigtWeber2011a.thumb.jpg.d927c4f6e71a536456d5483017ae7000.jpg

 

C. Obscurus:

 

5f2b2c47a2955_CobscurusgeodistributionVoigtWeber2011a.thumb.jpg.7299ef1d5d1396afb971bec3cf7d414f.jpg

 

For 2, there is wide variation in the serration patterns in lower Carcharhinus species teeth.  Some teeth are unserrated, some are partially serrated, and some are fully serrated.  Serrations can range from very fine (barely visible) to very coarse.  Some juvenile Carcharhinus species sharks can have different serration patterns from adult sharks and some male Carcharhinus species sharks can have different serration patterns from females.  Typically partially serrated teeth are serrated on the crown and top of the crown and unserrated or not as serrated on the teeth shoulders.  So the serration pattern that you are describing for your two teeth sounds more like one found on a lemon shark tooth versus the lower Carcharhinus species teeth that I’m familiar with.

 

For 3, truthfully I’m not familiar at all with the tooth features of the fossil lemon shark teeth from Indonesia.  You would have to compare those features with the extant lemon shark tooth features and those of the described fossil lemon sharks for a positive ID. However, based upon geography, it seems reasonable that your fossil teeth are N. acutidens or a lineage ancestor.

 

Marco Sr.

  • I found this Informative 1

"Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day."

My family fossil website     Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros     My Extant Shark Jaw Collection

image.png.9a941d70fb26446297dbc9dae7bae7ed.png image.png.41c8380882dac648c6131b5bc1377249.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MarcoSr said:

 

For 1, below are the ranges of C. Leucas and C. Obscurus from Voigt Weber 2011.  Bull sharks are in Indonesian waters and Dusky sharks are not.  So if the teeth came from Indonesia (Indonesian waters) they are most likely Bull shark teeth.

 

C. Leucas:

 

5f2b2c454e96b_CLeucasgeodistributionVoigtWeber2011a.thumb.jpg.d927c4f6e71a536456d5483017ae7000.jpg

 

C. Obscurus:

 

5f2b2c47a2955_CobscurusgeodistributionVoigtWeber2011a.thumb.jpg.7299ef1d5d1396afb971bec3cf7d414f.jpg

 

For 2, there is wide variation in the serration patterns in lower Carcharhinus species teeth.  Some teeth are unserrated, some are partially serrated, and some are fully serrated.  Serrations can range from very fine (barely visible) to very coarse.  Some juvenile Carcharhinus species sharks can have different serration patterns from adult sharks and some male Carcharhinus species sharks can have different serration patterns from females.  Typically partially serrated teeth are serrated on the crown and top of the crown and unserrated or not as serrated on the teeth shoulders.  So the serration pattern that you are describing for your two teeth sounds more like one found on a lemon shark tooth versus the lower Carcharhinus species teeth that I’m familiar with.

 

For 3, truthfully I’m not familiar at all with the tooth features of the fossil lemon shark teeth from Indonesia.  You would have to compare those features with the extant lemon shark tooth features and those of the described fossil lemon sharks for a positive ID. However, based upon geography, it seems reasonable that your fossil teeth are N. acutidens or a lineage ancestor.

 

Marco Sr.

Okay i understood, thanks for all the informations, appreciate it a lot!

Edited by Raihan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello, I'm unfortunately a bit late with my answer, but I still want to write to you.

 

The first teeth definitely look like bull shark (Carcharhinus leucas, as MarcoSr already said) to me.

 

Unfortunately, I have no idea about fossil teeth, so I can't help you with this.

 

The 3rd teeth are a little more difficult. I wouldn't rule out lemon sharks, but after my first idea they look very similar to Carcharhinus limbatus from my collection. I once looked through the the species of my collection and C. limbatus is very similar, so the teeth would probably belongs to this species.

 

I've add a example tooth below, than you can compare the teeth.

 

I hope I could help you, greetings from Germany

20200806_083219.jpg

My collection of Uncommon extant shark teeth - Here

My collection of interesting rare shark jaws - Here

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Dino9876 said:

The 3rd teeth are a little more difficult. I wouldn't rule out lemon sharks, but after my first idea they look very similar to Carcharhinus limbatus from my collection. I once looked through the the species of my collection and C. limbatus is very similar, so the teeth would probably belongs to this species.

 

I've add a example tooth below, than you can compare the teeth.

 

I hope I could help you, greetings from Germany

20200806_083219.jpg

 

On 8/5/2020 at 12:01 AM, Raihan said:

Okay thanks for the information, these lemons were found in Madura Island, Indonesia. The number 2 teeth doesn’t have any serrations on it’s blade, but they do have serrations on their shoulder. That’s the one im confused on, so some people also said that these are lower teeth from Carcharhinus species

 

And IF it’s a lemon, im also agree that it would be N.acutidens, since their distribution is around Indonesia

 

C. limbatus teeth have serrated crowns (both upper and lower teeth).  The serrations on the upper teeth are coarser on the tooth shoulders.  Raihan states above that:"The number 2 teeth doesn’t have any serrations on it’s blade, but they do have serrations on their shoulder."  That description doesn't match C. limbatus tooth features.

 

Below are two references on C. limbatus teeth.  I could provide additional references stating the same about the C. limbatus tooth features:

 

Compagno 1984 VOL. 4   SHARKS OF THE WORLD Part 2 - Carcharhiniformes

usually 15/14 to 15 rows of anteroposterior teeth in each jaw half but varying from 14 to 16/13 to 16; upper teeth with narrow, strongly serrated, erect to slightly oblique high cusps, and crown feet with slightly coarser serrations but no cusplets; lower teeth with erect, narrow, serrated high cusps and transverse roots.

image.png.a70aa1d5e3daa78d9dda3ab0d9f9be84.png

 

 

Garrick 1982 Sharks of the Genus Carcharhinus NOAA Technical Report NMFS Circular 445

image.png.b2d1920a3be9cfe5618edb87436d1af1.png

 

image.png.18ef6cc1901edc2883b46ab434da2ed7.png

 

 

 

Below are four C. limbatus teeth (two uppers and two lowers) from my collection where you can see the serrated crowns:

 

5f2ced1ebb2d7_Carcharhinuslimbatus(BlacktipShark)Upper15mm2.thumb.jpg.62baacd42cba5198b0efe1d0b484980a.jpg

5f2ced2073614_Carcharhinuslimbatus(BlacktipShark)Upper15mm.thumb.jpg.e9eb526cc039c6ed4a77489606cd2c56.jpg

 

 

5f2ced22032e7_Carcharhinuslimbatus(BlacktipShark)Upper215mm2.thumb.jpg.9d461f16dd959c0d057798e0e1899bf0.jpg

5f2ced23ed22a_Carcharhinuslimbatus(BlacktipShark)Upper215mm.thumb.jpg.ab7935f0051b7babbc83b2a995f7a9f9.jpg

 

 

5f2ced1796042_Carcharhinuslimbatus(BlacktipShark)Lower13mm2.thumb.jpg.790e257a7bc23c6a4ccc87c936dfab2b.jpg

5f2ced19688fd_Carcharhinuslimbatus(BlacktipShark)Lower13mm.thumb.jpg.0825a04da7f4f9eb7449dea0c0dc9b99.jpg

 

 

5f2ced1aebf12_Carcharhinuslimbatus(BlacktipShark)Lower212mm2.jpg.6eda2b6987d970d56ce3cb22ccf31b02.jpg

5f2ced1ce7f8f_Carcharhinuslimbatus(BlacktipShark)Lower212mm.jpg.cc6ec6ddd70ddc545954f2fdc5130ee9.jpg

 

 

Marco Sr.

  • I found this Informative 2

"Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day."

My family fossil website     Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros     My Extant Shark Jaw Collection

image.png.9a941d70fb26446297dbc9dae7bae7ed.png image.png.41c8380882dac648c6131b5bc1377249.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, sorry, I skipped that. thanks for the hint

My collection of Uncommon extant shark teeth - Here

My collection of interesting rare shark jaws - Here

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many thanks for both of your informations@MarcoSr & @Dino9876, and @ThePhysicist too. Didnt expect that you guys would help me this much with my simple questions. This community is great, you guys are really nice, thank you so much for helping a newbie like me! 

 

Warm greetings from Indonesia!

  • I found this Informative 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...