Incredible Fossils in Matrix - Question

[RescueMJ]

Greetings,

I am a newbie with a good fossil hunting ground.  I have permission to hunt on this property. My previous post regarding a Caudal Vert. didn't get much attention.  I was trying to find the age because most other material is Pleistocene.  I went looking for more verts in the piles.  On the other side of building lot I found a large boulder that was solidified mostly of chalky limestone. Visible on 4 sides are what I suspect are duogong ribs. There are many micro fossils visible.  I have been cleaning the sandy dirt away from where the fossils are. They appear to be on the brittle side.  The boulder is 24" x 12" and about 150 pounds.  A dental probe has allowed me to scrape away areas near the fossils but don't want to push it. I'm looking for suggestions on what you experts do with a specimen this size. Thanks to all of you for your ideas.  I am a science teacher in Sarasota County.  I know some of you are in my area.  I would like to make contact with any local experts.

 

Regards,

Michael

[LordTrilobite]

I don't personally have experience with this type of material. But here's some more general ideas.

 

You say the fossils are brittle. So first things first. Glue is your best friend. If something actually breaks off Cyanoacrylate is fantastic for repairs. But once it's stuck, it's stuck. So there's little room for mistakes.

If you wanna stabilize the fossils before prepping further you might want to use Paraloid B-72. Dissolved in acetone, this can nicely seep into all the structural weaknesses of the fossils if you make it thin enough. Since it's dissolved in acetone, this glue is reversible too. It's also not as hard so it lowers will give the fossils back some tiny bit of flexibility so they aren't as brittle. You can repair something with cyanoacrylate, but it's a harder glue so, while strong, it will still be brittle. These two glues are generally good choices. But someone with local experience might have more advice.
So I'd suggest at least stabilizing the visible fossils before going any further.

 

I think it's good that you scraped away a bit with dental picks. This can be a good way to get a more clear picture of what you have, and where the bone is going into the matrix before committing to prepping much deeper. I think it's generally good practice to properly clean an area, then stabilizing it before continuing on further.

 

For prepping away a lot you might want to use a pneumatic scribe tool to take away the bulk of the matrix. I'd suggest to just start exploring a little, start around the visible bones and see where they go without going too deep. Who knows what might be in there. By carefully exploring you can hold off on deciding if you want to keep the bones in the matrix or remove them altogether.

[Shellseeker]

6 hours ago, RescueMJ said:

Greetings,

I am a newbie with a good fossil hunting ground.  I have permission to hunt on this property. My previous post regarding a Caudal Vert. didn't get much attention.  I was trying to find the age because most other material is Pleistocene.  I went looking for more verts in the piles.  On the other side of building lot I found a large boulder that was solidified mostly of chalky limestone. Visible on 4 sides are what I suspect are dugong ribs. There are many micro fossils visible.  I have been cleaning the sandy dirt away from where the fossils are. They appear to be on the brittle side.  The boulder is 24" x 12" and about 150 pounds.  A dental probe has allowed me to scrape away areas near the fossils but don't want to push it. I'm looking for suggestions on what you experts do with a specimen this size. Thanks to all of you for your ideas.  I am a science teacher in Sarasota County.  I know some of you are in my area.  I would like to make contact with any local experts.

 

Regards,

Michael

 

Michael,

You pose an interesting set of questions. When I started fossil hunting 12-13 years ago,  I asked similar questions and mostly, like yours, they were not answered.

WHY did your Caudal Vert get little attention? 

The vast majority of humans (and fossil hunters) are attracted to "shiny objects". Teeth, claws, tusks.. These are highly desirable for collections, or for sale at prices up to  $5000 .... The net is lots of attention to teeth, claws and tusks, little attention (and knowledge) on fossil bones. You find some of the most knowledgeable experts and experienced fossil hunters  on this forum, but even then , it is difficult to identify bones.

WHY is it so hard to "date" a fossil or a Florida fossil site?  That is a nice dugong rib in your last photo. The dugong fossil record in Florida goes back 30 mya and some members of the dugong family still exist in Australia. That makes discussing when this specific fossil rib was dropped,  more difficult.

In Florida, there has been layering of fossils from 10 mya (Miocene) right under fossils from 1 mya (Pleistocene) which have been churned and intermixed. That is especially true directly under your feet in Venice Florida. 20-35 feet down is ocean bottom from 5 to 20 million years ago. Lots of valuable fossils which can be mixed with later fossils by actions of man or nature.

I was hunting in a river yesterday. I found a tooth from a horse that existed 5-10 mya. In the next sieve , I found an tooth from a horse that only existed in the last 2 mya.  How can I "date" the age of my site? There are few "pure" fossil sites, and you must date many fossils to that age and few outside that age. Here is a fossil that I have only found in Sarasota

 

How to remove fossils from Matrix?.  I have personally never done it, and the majority of  SW Florida fossil hunters I know have not done it either. Either the fossils are not valuable enough to retrieve or they are, and you leave them in the matrix.

Fortunately, there are LOTS of TFF members in the USA and worldwide like LordTrilobite who specialize in extracting fossils from matrix much harder than limestone and can advise you.

 

 

In my experience, most of the fossil hunters in Sarasota county are secretive (they would likely say the same about me). Can not say I blame them. For many, finding and selling fossils is their only income in these troubling financial times.

 

[minnbuckeye]

I have had the pleasure of hunting in Florida. As @Shellseeker says most fossils are not in matrix. But I have worked on a few that had matrix attached to them. For me, my inexpensive engraver from harbor freight took care of the bulk of the matrix. It should work fine for you. Good luck.

  

Mike

[RescueMJ]

Thank you. I do have a dremel engraver that I used to prep my caudal vertebra. It went through the concrete like material easily. 
 

this large boulder has some hard concretion areas and many chalky limestone areas. I’m going to try and use b72 on the fossils first before I go any further. 
 

Regards,

Michael