Questions about the eocene primate Adapis & the Ludian stage

[ziggycardon]

Hi everyone. 

 

I just ordered a cast of a Adapis parisiensis to add to my Eocene display. 
But after searching for some info on Adapis I have learned that they are apparently extensively studied, but hardly any of the information is available on the internet.

 

So I was wondering if anyone here could help me narrow down some of the very sparse information that is available.

 

I have learned that they are found in the Quercy Phosphorites Formation and in the Paris Basin. But especially on the case of the Paris Basin I really can't find anything on the exact locations where fossils of these early primates were found.

Regarding the age of these fossils, I have found that they are from the Ludian stage, which is a European stage that falls in the Priabonian. 
I know the Priabonian lasted from 37,8 mya to 33,9 mya, but I can't seem to narrow down the exact age of the Ludian. 

I hope some of you might be able to help me out with some of these questions.
Thank you in advance!  
 

[jpc]

I am pretty sure the early specimens found in the Paris basin were found a LONG time ago.  In those days a locality was considered sufficiently detailed if they said "Paris Basin".  The Catacombs of Paris are excavated in Eocene sediments and a lot of rock was removed over centuries to in search of building stones, I believe, or for gypsum to make plaster of Paris.  There probably are no good records of where the Paris Basin specimens come from.   From my understanding, mammals from the Paris Basin are very rare and are found either in these huge quarrying operations or as side effects of collecting fossil shells. The latter locality records are probably on file at certain french museums.  

 

https://www.britannica.com/science/Cenozoic-Era

[marguy]

maybe,  this can help?

THE ANATOMICAL RECORD 300:1576–1588 (2017)  : Eocene Paleoecology of Adapis parisiensis (Primate, Adapidae): From Inner Ear to Lifestyle

MARGOT BERNARDI  AND SEBASTIEN COUETTE

https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/ar.23609 

 One of the most complete skulls of the early primate Adapis parisiensis is in the collection of the Department of Zoology, Cambridge University. This exceptionally well-preserved male skull, from Quercy in southern France….  link:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240122275_Cranial_Morphology_and_Adaptations_in_Eocene_Adapidae_II_The_Cambridge_Skull_of_Adapis_parisiensis

 mandibule Toulouse museum

http://2000ans2000images.toulouse.fr/fr/search-notice/detail/uyhqti0sthtq85vq9eyitchkd0reqts3z7m90g2d9u0d43npr5

[marguy]

+ , maybe , ‘le parc des causses du Quercy’ have bibliographical documents or references

e-mail : contact@parc-causses-du-quercy.org

or ‘les phosphatières du cloup d’aural’

contact@phosphatieres.com

[ziggycardon]

3 hours ago, jpc said:

I am pretty sure the early specimens found in the Paris basin were found a LONG time ago.  In those days a locality was considered sufficiently detailed if they said "Paris Basin".  The Catacombs of Paris are excavated in Eocene sediments and a lot of rock was removed over centuries to in search of building stones, I believe, or for gypsum to make plaster of Paris.  There probably are no good records of where the Paris Basin specimens come from.   From my understanding, mammals from the Paris Basin are very rare and are found either in these huge quarrying operations or as side effects of collecting fossil shells. The latter locality records are probably on file at certain french museums.  

 

https://www.britannica.com/science/Cenozoic-Era

Yes, I guess you are right about the Paris Basin.

It seems Adapis has been discribed since 1821, so like you said, the discovery was probably a side effect of some large scale mining operation. And back then the record keeping wasn't  deemed as important as it is today.

 

Thank you for the reply! 

 

7 minutes ago, marguy said:

maybe,  this can help?

THE ANATOMICAL RECORD 300:1576–1588 (2017)  : Eocene Paleoecology of Adapis parisiensis (Primate, Adapidae): From Inner Ear to Lifestyle

MARGOT BERNARDI  AND SEBASTIEN COUETTE

https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/ar.23609 

 One of the most complete skulls of the early primate Adapis parisiensis is in the collection of the Department of Zoology, Cambridge University. This exceptionally well-preserved male skull, from Quercy in southern France….  link:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240122275_Cranial_Morphology_and_Adaptations_in_Eocene_Adapidae_II_The_Cambridge_Skull_of_Adapis_parisiensis

 mandibule Toulouse museum

http://2000ans2000images.toulouse.fr/fr/search-notice/detail/uyhqti0sthtq85vq9eyitchkd0reqts3z7m90g2d9u0d43npr5

Thank you, that 2nd paper was really helpfull. 

It seems that they place Adapis at the Eocene/Oligocene boundry which kinda answers the question when Ludian stage took place. 

 

Thank you, I think I now have the necessary information to make my info cards  

[Harry Pristis]

All very interesting.  Here's an example:

 

 

 

[WhodamanHD]

4 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

All very interesting.  Here's an example:

[ziggycardon]

On 17-8-2020 at 10:12 PM, Harry Pristis said:

All very interesting.  Here's an example:

 

 

 

Ooh, that's a lovely piece! 

Some genuine primate material from Quercy is definiatly on my fossil wish list

[siteseer]

Hi Ziggycardon,

 

A few months ago, I was looking at some of a friend's specimens from the Quercy Phosphorites.  I was also unable to nail down the range of the Ludian other than it being considered Late Eocene as in roughly Priabonian.  It must be an old term that has fallen from usage by the time more exact dates for fossils were being determined.

 

I did read that the postcranial skeleton of Adapis indicates that it was more of a slow-climbing animal rather than one that races and jumps around.  The genus died out by the end of the Eocene in Europe but the family (Adapidae) survived into the Oligocene in Asia.  It is not clear if adapids were ancestral to modern lemurs.

 

Jess

[ziggycardon]

The cast arrived today and while the seller didn't put the info in his listing, there was luckily an old information card that mentioned that the original skull was found in Phosphorite Beds in Quercy, France.

So thanks to everyone who responded to this post, thanks to your replies I gained some more information on these early primates.  

 

For anyone interested, here are a few photographs of the cast.

 

On 23-8-2020 at 11:00 AM, siteseer said:

Hi Ziggycardon,

 

A few months ago, I was looking at some of a friend's specimens from the Quercy Phosphorites.  I was also unable to nail down the range of the Ludian other than it being considered Late Eocene as in roughly Priabonian.  It must be an old term that has fallen from usage by the time more exact dates for fossils were being determined.

 

I did read that the postcranial skeleton of Adapis indicates that it was more of a slow-climbing animal rather than one that races and jumps around.  The genus died out by the end of the Eocene in Europe but the family (Adapidae) survived into the Oligocene in Asia.  It is not clear if adapids were ancestral to modern lemurs.

 

Jess

Yes, barely anything can be found on the Ludian, so I guess it indeed has fallen out of use as probably more accurate ones had come.

Yeah, I have read that these days they expect that Adapis kinda looked and behaved like slow or slender lorises. Even although Adapiforms were probably diurnal instead of nocturnal like the lorises are.

 

It looks like paleoartists are also going the loris way with their latest reconstructions of Adapis.

https://chasingsabretooths.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/paris-basin-day.jpg?w=584

[jpc]

I think we have a copy of this same cast in the Tate Museum collections. 

Nice acquisition.