Small Predator From Peace

[Shellseeker]

A small but interesting predator tooth. Found in Peace River which is mostly pleistocene material. Hoping that some one has found a similar tooth. Looks like an incisor, with a clear gum line.

[BobC]

Wow-that is really cool

[edd]

Dolphin/ Porpoise tooth

[Shellseeker]

Thanks EDD,

This has been difficult to identify, and I have never seen anything similar in thousands of fossils coming out of the Peace River. I have also searched with google for dolphin teeth and separately porpoise teeth.

Hard to find good photos but everything looks similar to this one.

[Harry Pristis]

Thanks EDD,

This has been difficult to identify, and I have never seen anything similar in thousands of fossils coming out of the Peace River. I have also searched with google for dolphin teeth and separately porpoise teeth.

Hard to find good photos but everything looks similar to this one.

I don't think that this is a whale tooth. I think you should focus your research on the river otter, Lutra sp.

[Boesse]

I agree with Harry; the root isn't quite long enough. It does bear some resemblance to the upper I3 (upper third incisor) of small bodied carnivorans.

Bobby

[Shellseeker]

Thanks for the pointers, Searching the web for Otter Canines:

http://www.nature-watch.com/river-otter-skull-replica-p-857.html?cPath=142_157&osCsid=n32ij3c6c6qpjmvq0ep8hrmu07

I am looking at that lower right canine as opposed to the incisor directly above. If I find something definitive, I will post it

[edd]

I found this tooth in a creek from Gainesville...it looks almost the same as your tooth and i was told by the guys at the museum and other ppl that mine was from a dolphin or porpoise.

[Shellseeker]

Edd, I agree -- Your tooth from Gainsville and mine from the Peace are definitely from the same animal. Looking at the shortness of the root, the notching around the gum line, and the conical curvature of the canine tooth -- these match.

Now -- if we can only find a photo on the web of a matching fossil tooth, that will be definitive.

I'm still searching.

Thanks for attaching the photos

[edd]

check this out...

http://www.rathbonesgifts.com/Dolphin%20fossils.htm

[Harry Pristis]

I still don't think 'shellseeker's tooth is whale. If it proves to be not otter, I would think about phocid seal. Seal fossils are rare in South Florida, but not unknown.

The best ID would come from Richard Hulbert at the FSM. Why don't you make some better images to send to Hulbert by e-mail. I understand that he does respond.

I don't recognize your tooth, 'edd'. Did "the guys at the museum" give you a genus or species name for the tooth?

[edd]

Actually it was Hulbert who told me it's from a Dolphin/Porpoise and he called another guy and he confirmed it, that's all they said, no genus/species.

[Shellseeker]

The best ID would come from Richard Hulbert at the FSM. Why don't you make some better images to send to Hulbert by e-mail. I understand that he does respond.

Richard Hulbert is the guest speaker at the Jan 21st meeting of the Lee County Fossil Club -- I will get this photo and discussion in front of him.. Good suggestion, especially since he IDed Edd's tooth.

[Boesse]

Hmm... Edd's tooth is definitely from an odontocete. Perhaps the resemblance is more obvious to shellseeker as he/she can rotate the fossil to the correct position for comparison. Resemblance is not obvious from the photos. Shellseeker: hold the tooth so that the crown is pointing up, and the root is curving toward the left. If the crown is curving towards or away from you (but not to the left or right) then that may be an abraded/broken odontocete tooth. In long-snouted toothed whales, the upper and lower jaws are narrow, and the teeth are crammed in; the roots curve to the midline of the body; however, the teeth crowns are often curved slightly outward, and there often appears to be a 'twist' in the tooth - the plane of curvature of the root is 90 degrees to that of the crown. It's very pronounced in long snouted odontocetes like Edd's specimen, which resembles teeth of lipotoid, inioid, and platanistoid "river dolphins", as well as the long snouted kentriodontid dolphins (and is likely anything but a lipotoid).

Bobby

[Shellseeker]

Shellseeker: hold the tooth so that the crown is pointing up, and the root is curving toward the left. If the crown is curving towards or away from you (but not to the left or right) then that may be an abraded/broken odontocete tooth.

Bobby, I am really a novice at finding fossils (9 months) and identifying odd specimens is even harder. It is why I find this site fantastic. The expertise of you and others just flows.

In looking on the web and here at odontocete fossil teeth, most of what I saw has the length of the root 2x-3x the length of the crown. That was the basis of thinking Edd's and my tooth are the same animal. I did not even consider curvature of the root/crown.

Here are a couple of more photos: On the rear view it seems to me that the root curves to the right and the tip of the crown slightly left. On the front view, both root and crown tip seem to lean left.

[Harry Pristis]

Bobby, I am really a novice at finding fossils (9 months) and identifying odd specimens is even harder. It is why I find this site fantastic. The expertise of you and others just flows.

In looking on the web and here at odontocete fossil teeth, most of what I saw has the length of the root 2x-3x the length of the crown. That was the basis of thinking Edd's and my tooth are the same animal. I did not even consider curvature of the root/crown.

Here are a couple of more photos: On the rear view it seems to me that the root curves to the right and the tip of the crown slightly left. On the front view, both root and crown tip seem to lean left.

You must be cautious, 'shellseeker', when using the root of a tooth as a diagnostic factor. Roots are composed of dentin which is much softer than tooth enamel. In other words, roots may wear much faster than enamel in a high-energy situation like the Peace River. The crown of the tooth is the important diagnostic feature with these isolated teeth.