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New Jersey Cretaceous bone (Plesiosaur?)


frankh8147

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Hello!

 

I found this unusually well preserved 2.25 inch long bone at a Monmouth County New Jersey Cretaceous stream yesterday and was hoping someone could identify it.

 

It has faint lines running vertically on it (most visible on pictures 2 and 3) which I believe I have seen on some Plesiosaur specimens but I can't seem to find the threads on the forum. It's also pretty flat, which I think rules out Mosasaur but again, I'm unsure 

 

If anyone could help identify this, it would make my weekend :)

 

Thanks!

@Trevor @Carl @non-remanié

20200906_065509.jpg

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Definitely a marine reptile phalanx, but whether it is mosasaur or plesiosaurian is hard to say

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"In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..."

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I'm not an expert on these at all and have no background with big brook which is very close to where you found this probably but it looks like mosasaur to me (the top darker image) because the plesiosaur bones look a lot more shorter while yours is longer like the mosasaurs. But i don't know let's see what other people have to say.

 

 

 

Mosasaur Paddle Parts - Member Collections - The Fossil Forum

Science Source - Plesiosaur Paddle

 

 

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I agree with @Top Trilo 's reasoning. I believe that since your find appears to be one of the finger digits, the flatness does not matter.

 

Excellent find Frank, as always! Now just to find the rest of that flipper.

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It also seems more like Mosasaur because of the hourglass shape.

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“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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12 hours ago, RuMert said:

Yep, plesiosaur digits are more robust and not so flattened

How generalised can this be? Looking at some of the Jurassic plesiosaur paddles they also seem to have pretty flat digits. 

12 hours ago, The Jersey Devil said:

It also seems more like Mosasaur because of the hourglass shape.

Plesiosaur digits can be very hourglass shaped as well so the hourglass shape alone is not a reliable discriminator. 

"In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..."

-Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas

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5 minutes ago, Paleoworld-101 said:Plesiosaur digits can be very hourglass shaped as well so the hourglass shape alone is not a reliable discriminator. 


I was just going off of the above picture @Top Trilo posted

“You must take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.” ― Mikhail Tal

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4 minutes ago, The Jersey Devil said:


I was just going off of the above picture @Top Trilo posted

Understood, but this is a plesiosaur paddle for example, they can be just as hourglass shaped :) 

 

Plesiosaur vertebrae - Page 6 | Prehistoric, Fossils, Paleontology

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"In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..."

-Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas

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15 minutes ago, RuMert said:

This could be a primitive plesiosaur (if any). What is the provenance?

It is from Lyme Regis which is why i wondered how much the paddle morphology can be generalised, elasmosaurids and polycotylids vs. more basal Jurassic forms etc

"In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..."

-Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas

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Location and period above all. Late Jurassic and Cretaceous plesiosaurs should look like Top Trilo's 2nd pic, so if we are to chose between mosasaur and plesiosaur ( Late Cretaceous), the digit looks mosasaurian while in Early Jurassic it could have possibly been plesiosaurian. Generalization is not the best option as animals change drastically over time

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2 hours ago, RuMert said:

Location and period above all. Late Jurassic and Cretaceous plesiosaurs should look like Top Trilo's 2nd pic, so if we are to chose between mosasaur and plesiosaur ( Late Cretaceous), the digit looks mosasaurian while in Early Jurassic it could have possibly been plesiosaurian. Generalization is not the best option as animals change drastically over time

You were generalising when you said "plesiosaur digits are more robust and not so flattened". I agree this one is more likely mosasaurian but it is good to clarify why. "Cretaceous plesiosaurs" is also a very broad category, with surely a considerable range of morphological variation. More specifically what formation is this from and what taxa are reported from it? 

"In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..."

-Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas

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I was obviously referring to this specific case, which relates to late Cretaceous. Plesiosaur digits are more robust and not so flattened? Yes they are. You don't think so? We'll be happy to get acquainted with your own position and arguments.

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16 hours ago, PaleoNoel said:

Nice find! Really good bone preservation for the NJ brooks. I agree with mosasaur based on the shape from the pictures @Top Trilo shared.

 

14 hours ago, jonnyquest said:

Beauty! I'm jealous :-)

Thank you! It's something I haven't found before and looks great in my Mosasaur collection! I'm betting this just popped out of the cliffs because it's tough to imagine it surviving the streams for long :)

20200907_082536~2.jpg

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47 minutes ago, Bob-ay said:

Very Nice find! and awesome Mosasaur collection!  

What he said! That's one impressive collection and an awesome find. I'm jealous! :D

'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett

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