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I was looking for fossils at Greenleaf Lake today in Oklahoma. I came across a cottonmouth on a narrow, wooded trail (cottonmouth is a poisonous snake) The cottonmouth made sure I saw it--when I was about 8 feet away, it started whipping its tail. I had to get past the snake on the trail to go back to my pickup. I kept thinking the snake would leave while I was taking pictures, but instead, it went into a threat display with its open mouth and increased the thrashing of its tail. The tail thrashing brought a copperhead out of the nearby leaves, and the copperhead then started displaying with its own open mouth (copperheads are also poisonous). I searched around me for a long stick to nudge them off the trail, but I was in the one part of the woods with no suitable sticks. The copperhead eventually slithered on top of the cottonmouth. This startled the cottonmouth and they both darted under a large rock on the downhill side of the trail. That is when I was able to pass by. There was a second copperhead in the leaves, but I never saw it until I looked at the pictures when I got home. Photos are attached (The zoom makes it look like I was close, but I was 6-7 feet away--except for the second copperhead that I didn't see at the time.)
I think I'll stay away from the lake until winter.
Best wishes.

01 Cottonmouth on trail.JPG

02 Cottonmouth & 1st Copperhead with mouth open.JPG

03 Cottonmouth with mouth open & 2nd copperhead on right (which I did not see).JPG

04 Cottonmouth. 1st Copperhead with mouth open. Second copperhead on right (which I never saw).JPG

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Yikes! I love snakes but I hate being surprised by them. I think you're making the right choice to give the area some time.

We don't have to worry about snakes too much in my area but the occasional run in with a rattler is always stressful. Stay safe! 

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It appears that you stumbled onto a cottonmouth nativity scene.  These smaller snakes that resemble copperheads are actually newborn cottonmouths.  The young are ovoviviparous -- live born -- but they don't hang around mom very long.  The young are autonomous within minutes of birth.  They lose their vivid coloring as they grow.

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What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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It would suck to be bitten by two different venomous snakes within a few seconds, that would make you one of most unlucky person on Earth!

 

@Harry Pristis is correct. Juvenile cottonmouth is commonly misidentified as copperhead. 

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Reason No 33 to love Wyoming.  Our poisonous snakes have rattles and triangular shaped heads.  Easy to ID.   How do you tell that big snake fro, say a non-venomous black racer?  

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Indeed; cottonmouths look like they have been on steroids compared to other black snakes or other water snakes.

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The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true.  -  JJ

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Your snake story is so cool! But I was wondering, myself, about the coincidence of a copperhead being around your cottonmouth.  Seeing the cottonmouth young, though, I can easily understand how they could be mistaken for their viper cousin.  But the copperhead's bands are a little less jagged and they lack the "spots" on the snakes you saw.  You can compare to a friendly copperhead my son and I saw several weeks ago sunning itself in the Calvert Cliffs.  Beautiful creatures all! 

20200806_153511.jpg

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Great story!  I just read it to my family and showed them your photos - the snakes' open mouths are quite intimidating!!!  I'm glad you got back to your vehicle without any problem.

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Interesting story. 

I usually spot horned vipers in Bulgaria. They are very dangerous after hibernation since that period poison is stronger. Their gray colour makes them difficult to spot on the dark gray shales. So far I am lucky! 

 

What happens if you get bitten? Is there any anti venom that you can inject to yourself in case of emergency? My father told me atropine is good to delay the effects of poison and buy you some time but I need to discuss it with a doctor. 

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Thanks to everyone for the great comments. I spent the first 55 years of my life in Kansas, where cottonmouths are either nonexistent or occur only sporadically in the extreme southeastern corner of the state (a few reports from Cherokee County, I believe). The main poisonous snakes in Kansas are copperheads and many species of rattlers. Now and then a different species (such as a coral snake) might come in on a shipment of lumber from the southern states, but they don't establish viable populations in Kansas. I've been in Oklahoma for 7 years, and this was my first encounter with a cottonmouth in the wild. I would never have guessed that juveniles could look so much like copperheads. With this in mind, I'm happy the snake in the lower right of some of the pictures kept its cool (the one I never saw), because it may have been close enough to create a real problem for me. For those with questions about telling a cottonmouth from nonvenomous snakes, all three of the snakes in the photos were very stout and did have distinct triangular heads. The photos are a bit grainy, but I believe the last picture shows the triangular shape of big one's head. 

Now, if you liked the first story, here's one that's just as good from the same day. I don't have photos to back me up on this one, so I will understand any skepticism (I come from a long line of leg-pullers, but I promise this is true): This was my first trip to Greenleaf Lake. I went there because it is within an hour of home and the location was frequently mentioned by some great invertebrate paleontologists such as Raymond Moore. I went to the lake with the hope of finding some blastoids, corals, and crinoids near the spillway that Moore had written about. Early in the morning, I took a marked and named trail from the park to the East side of the spillway. Although the trail was listed in state park literature (and it is reportedly frequented by Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and other safety-minded folks), it actually requires hikers to walk across a busy two-lane bridge on Highway 10. When I got to the bridge, I waited until I could not see or hear any vehicles before I tried to race across. When I got to the halfway point, I began to hear the sounds of traffic ahead and behind me. Soon, the traffic met me on the bridge. There was no real shoulder, so the cars took turns getting around me (with some drivers making interesting hand signals). After getting across, I vowed to find another way back, even if I had to take off my hiking boots and swim across the channel. I did find two blastoids, along with some corals. I placed these in a couple of plastic containers, and then put the containers in a bag attached my belt. After eating a sack lunch, I began looking for an alternate way back across the lake. Although the top of the spillway dam is chest high on the east side of the lake, it is > 10 feet (3 meters) straight up on the West side where I needed to reach the top (you can google greenleaf lake spillway for pictures--the scale of the spillway dam is much taller and longer than the pictures suggest). To get back across the lake, while avoiding the highway 10 bridge, I put my wallet and cell phone in zip lock bags left over from my lunch. I placed these in a second bag that I could hold over my head. I then waded in the water to cross on the lake-side of the spillway (upstream deep side) . I held onto the spillway as I crossed (about 4 inches of water was flowing over the spillway at the time). The weedy bottom on which I was walking consisted of large boulders or chunks of concrete--quite difficult to navigate in the murky water. When the weeds disappeared, the bottom dropped out and I had to propel myself by kicking my feet while holding the spillway with one hand and keeping my dry bag out of the water with my other hand. Eventually I got to the West side, only to find that I had forgotten to close the bag with my fossils that was attached to my belt. The two plastic containers of fossils had come out while I was crossing. It was on my way back to the pickup that I encountered the snakes. At first, I was disappointed about losing the fossils, but after encountering the snakes all I could do was laugh because it reminded me of the story "Sierra Madre". All of that for a chance to find some fossils!

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I never knew baby cottonmouths looked like copperheads before.  Thanks for the post.  This is why I hike with a staff.

"There is no shortage of fossils. There is only a shortage of paleontologists to study them." - Larry Martin

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12 hours ago, Past Hunter said:

Water rattlers are the snakes I see the most here in eastern NC. 

 

"Water rattler" is nebulous term which may be locally applied to harmless water snakes of the genus Nerodia or to the timber rattlesnake or even to the eastern diamondback (EDB). 

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http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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On 9/12/2020 at 12:26 AM, HemiHunter said:

Your snake story is so cool! But I was wondering, myself, about the coincidence of a copperhead being around your cottonmouth.  Seeing the cottonmouth young, though, I can easily understand how they could be mistaken for their viper cousin.  But the copperhead's bands are a little less jagged and they lack the "spots" on the snakes you saw.  You can compare to a friendly copperhead my son and I saw several weeks ago sunning itself in the Calvert Cliffs.  Beautiful creatures all! 

20200806_153511.jpg

 

It appears to me that this copperhead is gravid.  See how the skin between the scales is exposed.  She is not long from giving birth, I think.

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http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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Great story and glad you made it out ok! :thumbsu:

 

I would have mistaken the young for copperheads myself! We have cottonmouths in Kentucky, but they are typically found in the south western part of the state, and out of my area. Copperheads and Timber Rattlesnakes are far more common here.

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.  -Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy)

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24 minutes ago, FossilNerd said:

Great story and glad you made it out ok! :thumbsu:

 

I would have mistaken the young for copperheads myself! We have cottonmouths in Kentucky, but they are typically found in the south western part of the state, and out of my area. Copperheads and Timber Rattlesnakes are far more common here.

 

Some typically-southern species extend their range north up the Mississippi River valley.  Cottonmouth moccasins and green treefrogs (et al.) are common in the cypress swamps along the extreme Southern Illinois river valleys.

 

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http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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My wife and I drove into Tulsa this evening and bought some snake-guard knee-high shields for my future adventures. Also, as a side note, our son indicated it would be very unusual for a copperhead to make an open-mouth display, as the cottonmouths did. He further elaborated in an e-mail: " I’ve never seen one act that aggressive, except when I had them in hand." To explain his in-hand comment, he has a PhD in biology and is a faculty member in the horticulture department at Kansas State University. He does a lot of cooperative extension work with the public on topics involving wildlife, and his research involves capturing and tracking all manner of vertebrates (from small critters such as mice, badgers and coyotes, all the way up to whitetail and mule deer). He does radio-tracking studies on the larger species and capture-recapture studies on the smaller ones. Anyway, I guess I can't lecture him about having copperheads in hand at this point in his life.

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9 hours ago, Gramps said:

Also, as a side note, our son indicated it would be very unusual for a copperhead to make an open-mouth display, as the cottonmouths did. He further elaborated in an e-mail: " I’ve never seen one act that aggressive, except when I had them in hand."

I agree with your son. My experience with copperheads is they like to stay very still trying not to be seen. Cottonmouths will put on a display.

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On 9/11/2020 at 11:02 PM, JohnJ said:

Indeed; cottonmouths look like they have been on steroids compared to other black snakes or other water snakes.

Where I live in Ohio we have some very beefy and aggressive but non-venomous Black Rat Snakes (Pantherophis obsoletus) that could give cottonmouths a run for their money. At first glance they can look very similar to a cottonmouth, with the only tell being their different head shape. Cottonmouths are a type of pit viper and have that very distinctive arrowhead shaped head that pit vipers are known for.

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On 9/12/2020 at 1:12 PM, Harry Pristis said:

 

"Water rattler" is nebulous term which may be locally applied to harmless water snakes of the genus Nerodia or to the timber rattlesnake or even to the eastern diamondback (EDB). 

You're correct Harry. Our Brown Water snakes (non venomous) are called water rattlers in some areas. 

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Mistaking northern water snakes for copperheads is also common as both have somewhat similar banding and can be found in the same general areas.  There are many, many more water snakes around than copperheads. But they are not really that much alike when compared side-to-side.  This one here that my son caught a few weeks back has beautiful markings, but quite different from copperheads and the body is way slimmer.  By the way, this one spit up a brace of skillet fish it had been feeding on, which is an interesting part of their diet on Chesapeake Bay.  And, although not venomous, northern water snakes still can be nasty and aggressive when approached and can give you a painful bite filled with bacteria.  (I learned the hard way messing around with one decades ago when on an 8th grade field trip.  My teachers/chaperones were not amused...)

 

Resized_20200914_142346_7265.jpeg

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On 9/13/2020 at 5:49 AM, GemCityHippie said:

Where I live in Ohio we have some very beefy and aggressive but non-venomous Black Rat Snakes (Pantherophis obsoletus) that could give cottonmouths a run for their money. At first glance they can look very similar to a cottonmouth, with the only tell being their different head shape. Cottonmouths are a type of pit viper and have that very distinctive arrowhead shaped head that pit vipers are known for.

Growing up in SW Ohio I was the kid who had terrariums full of snakes on the back porch. Pretty much all caught myself.  I used to get a kick out of all my friends parents freaking out because they were dead certain that I was going to get bit by one of those "water moccasins."   The only venomous snake I ever encountered was a dead copperhead and I found out later some knucklehead had brought it up from Kentucky and let it go in our local creek.  

 

But you are right on in that there are NO WATER MOCCASINS in Ohio. And the Black Snakes were always a handful.

 

I now live in Central Texas and I know Water Moccasins well. I have seen a few small Diamondback Rattle snakes and a few Coral Snakes in the 15 years I have lived here. Almost all were on a nature preserve were I worked for three years.  To date I saw more and larger Timber rattlers back in New York State up on the Shawangunk Mountain ridge than so far in Texas.  Honestly I am more worried here about things like scorpions, black widows, giant centipedes, velvet ants and wasps than snakes.

 

PS HemiHunter, that is one beautiful Northern Water Snake!  

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4 minutes ago, erose said:

Growing up in SW Ohio I was the kid who had terrariums full of snakes on the back porch. Pretty much all caught myself.  I used to get a kick out of all my friends parents freaking out because they were dead certain that I was going to get bit by one of those "water moccasins."   The only venomous snake I ever encountered was a dead copperhead and I found out later some knucklehead had brought it up from Kentucky and let it go in our local creek.  

 

I now live in Central Texas and I know Water Moccasins well. I have seen a few small Diamondback Rattle snakes and a few Coral Snakes in the 15 years I have lived here. Almost all were on a nature preserve were I worked for three years.  To date I saw more and larger Timber rattlers back in New York State up on the Shawangunk Mountain ridge than so far in Texas.  Honestly I am more worried here about things like scorpions, black widows, giant centipedes, velvet ants and wasps than snakes.

 

PS HemiHunter, that is one beautiful Northern Water Snake!  

I've come a whole lot closer than I care for to stepping on copperheads and diamondbacks a few times while hunting near the Shawnee state forest years ago. Granted that's kind of what you get sometimes when you go traipsing through thick mountain forest while out deer hunting. Still more than a bit of a "brown alert" situation though.

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