Luccasforza Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Hi everyone! With my 6 years old son we have bought this precious tooth in a prestigious shop at Barcelona. They have tell us that is a Mosasaurus tooth, but I think not. It looks more a Spinosaurus tooth, maybe (sorry if I'm talking absurdity, I'm totally newbie...). The teller at shop was not the usual one, and it was not possible to ask him more information. Please, may you help me to identify the correct "former owner" for this tooth? My son and I will be very grateful for that. I'm posting some photos for the piece. The first one is from the other pieces at shop, that we didn’t bought. The size for rule is in centimeters. Thanks a lot for your kindness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) . Edited September 12, 2020 by Luccasforza Attaching pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) . Edited September 12, 2020 by Luccasforza Attaching pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) . Edited September 12, 2020 by Luccasforza Attaching pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Did you make an inquiry to the seller where the tooth was bought from? Maybe you need to ask the shop owner, not the sales clerk. ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) . Edited September 12, 2020 by Luccasforza Attaching pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) . Edited September 12, 2020 by Luccasforza Attaching pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 20 minutes ago, Kane said: Did you make an inquiry to the seller where the tooth was bought from? Maybe you need to ask the shop owner, not the sales clerk. Yesterday (Friday) it was banking day in Barcelona, today is Saturday, tomorrow is off again... The owner was at hollyday and the attendant couldn't help me. I written an email them asking about, maybe they answer or not. But if they will reaffirm that it is a Mosasaurus tooth, I'll no be really peaceful, because it doesn't looks at all. And is for this reason that I'm asking some help here... Thanks anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggycardon Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 They are Spinosaurid teeth from the Kem Kem beds in Morocco and date back to the Cretaceous, some 95 million years ago. 3 Interested in all things paleontology, geology, zoology, evolution, natural history and science! Professional exotic pet keeper, huge fantasy geek, explorer of the microfossil realm, member of the BVP (Belgian Association for Paleontology), Volunteer prepper at Oertijdmuseum Boxtel. View my collection topic here: The Growing Collection of Ziggycardon My animal collection at the "Members pet" topic Ziggycardon's exploration of the microfossil realm Trips to Eben Emael (Maastrichtian of Belgium) My latest fossil hunt Next project will be a dedicated prepping space. "A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, ziggycardon said: They are Spinosaurid teeth from the Kem Kem beds in Morocco and date back to the Cretaceous, some 95 million years ago. And did you mean that mine is one of these? Are you agree with me that this one doesn't look like a Mosasaurus tooth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Indeed, a large Moroccan, sail-backed dinosaur was the previous owner of this tooth. Not a big swimming lizard. 2 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Indeed, a large Moroccan, sail-backed dinosaur was the previous owner of this tooth. Not a big swimming lizard. Yeah, I think so! Hoping that the shop will give me a confident answer about place and "owner"... If they'll did say "Morocco" maybe we could close the topic. I'll inform you about. Do you think that there is another possible candidate that Spino? Thanks a lot @Tidgy's Dad! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Luccasforza said: Yeah, I think so! Hoping that the shop will give me a confident answer about place and "owner"... If they'll did say "Morocco" maybe we could close the topic. I'll inform you about. Do you think that there is another possible candidate that Spino? Thanks a lot @Tidgy's Dad! There's always a chance it's something else. But it looks Moroccan Spino to me and to Ziggy who collects this sort of thing. Let's see if anyone else has an opinion. 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: There's always a chance it's something else. But it looks Moroccan Spino to me and to Ziggy who collects this sort of thing. Let's see if anyone else has an opinion. Thanks @Tidgy's Dad, thanks @ziggycardon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 These are Spinosaurid teeth, not mosasaur. Unfortunately, it looks like these teeth have been tampered with. The roots do not look natural. They are too long, thick, and lack the detail that real Spino teeth have. I believe the roots are fake and have been fabricated from glue, sand, and random bone bits. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricWonders Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Agreed with the others, spino teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 This is what an authentic rooted Spino tooth should look like. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 53 minutes ago, Praefectus said: These are Spinosaurid teeth, not mosasaur. Unfortunately, it looks like these teeth have been tampered with. The roots do not look natural. They are too long, thick, and lack the detail that real Spino teeth have. I believe the roots are fake and have been fabricated from glue, sand, and random bone bits. What do you think about this, @Tidgy's Dad and @ziggycardon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 I agree. It's sadly very common with Moroccan specimens. 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggycardon Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 9 hours ago, Luccasforza said: And did you mean that mine is one of these? Are you agree with me that this one doesn't look like a Mosasaurus tooth? All the teeth in the picture are indeed Spinosaurid is I see correctly, Mosasaur teeth are quite different in morphology. Here are two Spinosaurid teeth from the Kem Kem Beds that I own for comparison. Not my examples aren't rooted like the ones you pictured. And here are some examples of Mosasaur teeth I own. The first one is a rooted Prognathodon sp. tooth found in the Phosphate mine of Khouribga in Morocco (Cretaceous, 70 million years old) These teeth are the most common Mosasaur teeth on the market. The second one is a Mosasaurus beaugei tooth also found in the Phosphate mine of Khouribga in Morocco (Cretaceous, 70 million years old) And here are some more specimens from different species that occured in Khouribga during the Late Cretaceous. As you can see none of them match the teeth you showed, not in morphology or in preservation. 9 hours ago, Luccasforza said: If they'll did say "Morocco" maybe we could close the topic. I'll inform you about. Both Spinosaurid teeth and Mosasaur teeth are quite common from Morocco. The Spinosaurids come from the Kem Kem beds which is Cenomanian in age (95 million years ago) and most of the Mosasaur material comes from Khourigba which is Maastrichtian in age (70 million years ago) 7 hours ago, Praefectus said: Unfortunately, it looks like these teeth have been tampered with. The roots do not look natural. They are too long, thick, and lack the detail that real Spino teeth have. I believe the roots are fake and have been fabricated from glue, sand, and random bone bits. 6 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said: I agree. It's sadly very common with Moroccan specimens. I am affraid I have to agree with the rest, most Moroccan material on the market is a little bit tempered with. Often roots or bit of teeth are added together to make for a more beautifull tooth. Fully rooted Spinosaurid teeth from Kem Kem are not that uncommon, but it takes quite some time and usually quite a bit of money to find a naterul fully rooted Spinosaurid tooth that has not been tampered with. In most cases pieces of roots that were found without teeth are glued to teeth that where found without roots, this is what we call composites, sometimes pieces of bone are cut to resemble roots and stick to the teeth or sometimes the roots are completely faked by carving them out of rock. It's like @Tidgy's Dad already mentioned, but it is indeed common practice in Morocco to temper with fossils to make them look nicer for sales. We probably need some high quality pictures with good lighting to exactly point out where the repairs and composition area's exactly are on your teeth and whether the roots are real or not. But you can be assured that what you own is a real dinosaur tooth, it might have some parts that might be fake or composite, but the crown is definiatly real and from a Spinosaurid, so in the end you do own a real fossil 5 Interested in all things paleontology, geology, zoology, evolution, natural history and science! Professional exotic pet keeper, huge fantasy geek, explorer of the microfossil realm, member of the BVP (Belgian Association for Paleontology), Volunteer prepper at Oertijdmuseum Boxtel. View my collection topic here: The Growing Collection of Ziggycardon My animal collection at the "Members pet" topic Ziggycardon's exploration of the microfossil realm Trips to Eben Emael (Maastrichtian of Belgium) My latest fossil hunt Next project will be a dedicated prepping space. "A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Hello together, I think there is concensus that this is a partially restored spinosaurid tooth. I just have one question, trying to learn: it seems to have a distinct carina that made me think more of plesiosaur before I realized the size. Most spino teeth I know are rather round in cross section. Does this depend on the position or ontogeny? Thanks, J Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 11 hours ago, Praefectus said: This is what an authentic rooted Spino tooth should look like. Please, may I have a picture for superior section of this piece? Similar to these ones: Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.cheese Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 On 9/13/2020 at 11:22 AM, Mahnmut said: Hello together, I think there is concensus that this is a partially restored spinosaurid tooth. I just have one question, trying to learn: it seems to have a distinct carina that made me think more of plesiosaur before I realized the size. Most spino teeth I know are rather round in cross section. Does this depend on the position or ontogeny? Thanks, J Most of the Spino teeth I own are roundish at the root and turning more oval towards the point, in cross section looking more like an american football, I am no expert I just own a few! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 On 9/13/2020 at 6:51 AM, Luccasforza said: Please, may I have a picture for superior section of this piece? Similar to these ones: Thank you! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luccasforza Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 Really beautiful tooth. Thanks @Praefectus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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