Opabinia Blues Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Hello! This is a small fossil from the White River Formation of Weld County, Colorado. To me it appears to be a set of front incisors rooted to a small piece of the maxilla or mandible. There are no teeth or tooth sockets next to the two that are there, and so this makes them look like the two incisors characteristic of rodents and lagomorphs. Interested if anyone can tell me anything else about them. Two photos are through a stereo dissecting microscope at 20X magnification, the other two, though blurry, should give a sense of scale. The entire fossil is about 9 mm tall, with the tooth crowns themselves being about 4 mm tall. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Trilo Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 The not zoomed in photos look modern but it’s probably just the lighting. I don’t know what it is but a rodent would probably be a good guess “If fossils are not "boggling" your mind then you are simply not doing it right” -Ken (digit) "No fossil is garbage, it´s just not completely preserved” -Franz (FranzBernhard) "With hammer in hand, the open horizon of time, and dear friends by my side, what can we not accomplish together?" -Kane (Kane) "We are in a way conquering time, reuniting members of a long lost family" -Quincy (Opabinia Blues) "I loved reading the trip reports, I loved the sharing, I loved the educational aspect, I loved the humor. It felt like home. It still does" -Mike (Pagurus) “The best deal I ever got was getting accepted as a member on The Fossil Forum. Not only got an invaluable pool of knowledge, but gained a loving family as well.” -Doren (caldigger) "it really is nice, to visit the oasis that is TFF" -Tim (fossildude19) "Life's Good! -Adam (Tidgy's Dad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opabinia Blues Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Top Trilo said: The not zoomed in photos look modern but it’s probably just the lighting. I don’t know what it is but a rodent would probably be a good guess Thank you! It is just the lighting, I assure you this is a fossil, you’ll have to take my word for it though. I have a little bit of experience with White River fossils and have collected quite a bit from this location. I didn’t even realize it was a little piece of jaw with teeth until I got back, assumed it was a little bone fragment like the many others I pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntonia Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 A picture of the chewing surface would help greatly in determining a definitive ID 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opabinia Blues Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Huntonia said: A picture of the chewing surface would help greatly in determining a definitive ID This appears to be the chewing surface, I hope it is clear enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opabinia Blues Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, Huntonia said: A picture of the chewing surface would help greatly in determining a definitive ID Unless you meant the top surface, sorry about that potential misunderstanding. Here’s the best magnified view I could get of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Trilo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, OpabiniaBoogaloo said: I assure you this is a fossil, you’ll have to take my word for it I believe you, I just don’t have enough experience to ID it. I hope we find out what it is though, good luck “If fossils are not "boggling" your mind then you are simply not doing it right” -Ken (digit) "No fossil is garbage, it´s just not completely preserved” -Franz (FranzBernhard) "With hammer in hand, the open horizon of time, and dear friends by my side, what can we not accomplish together?" -Kane (Kane) "We are in a way conquering time, reuniting members of a long lost family" -Quincy (Opabinia Blues) "I loved reading the trip reports, I loved the sharing, I loved the educational aspect, I loved the humor. It felt like home. It still does" -Mike (Pagurus) “The best deal I ever got was getting accepted as a member on The Fossil Forum. Not only got an invaluable pool of knowledge, but gained a loving family as well.” -Doren (caldigger) "it really is nice, to visit the oasis that is TFF" -Tim (fossildude19) "Life's Good! -Adam (Tidgy's Dad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntonia Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Looking at this I believe you don't have an incisor at all, but rather a section of a lower jaw with a tooth in it. Not sure exactly what from, maybe a rabbit or some kind of rodent. Perhaps @jpccan assist us. Below is a picture of a Palaeolagus lower jaw to demonstrate the section I believe you have. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opabinia Blues Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, Huntonia said: Looking at this I believe you don't have an incisor at all, but rather a section of a lower jaw with a tooth in it. Not sure exactly what from, maybe a rabbit or some kind of rodent. Perhaps @jpccan assist us. Below is a picture of a Palaeolagus lower jaw to demonstrate the section I believe you have. Thank you! That actually makes a lot of sense looking at that view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opabinia Blues Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 @jpc any thoughts on this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I just saw this... Huntonia has got it. This is a Paleolagus lower jaw frag... premolar or molar, not incisors. I am not sure of the dental formula for rabbits. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 @jpc recent rabbit bottom : PM1 - PM2 - M1 - M2 - M3 (Perhaps I have to write pm1 - pm2 - m1 - m2 - m3 ?). Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 29 minutes ago, Coco said: @jpc recent rabbit bottom : PM1 - PM2 - M1 - M2 - M3 (Perhaps I have to write pm1 - pm2 - m1 - m2 - m3 ?). Coco Thanks, coco. So this fossil is the jaw fragment with lower first premolar. I think that is one tooth, as opposed to first and second premolars, but anyone else feel free to correct me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I have forgoten "I", but I don't think they are important here Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerPaleo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, jpc said: Thanks, coco. So this fossil is the jaw fragment with lower first premolar. I think that is one tooth, as opposed to first and second premolars, but anyone else feel free to correct me. It is a single tooth, p1. I was too slow to the ID party 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 57 minutes ago, Coco said: I have forgoten "I", but I don't think they are important here Coco Actually, coco, one of the distinguishing characters of rabbits is two upper incisors. No rodent has this. Rabbits have a small incisor behind each main front upper teeth. Also, there are zero canines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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