Just another day in Paradise

[Shellseeker]

I was out hunting with yesterday. Intermittent clouds and sunshine. Usually when I hunt fossils, it is humid and hot with mosquitoes and horse flies dive bombing you. Yesterday, the temps were mild, humidity gone and it was actually chilly at times in cool water at 75 degrees. distressed

My hunting partner was doing well, finding distressed Megs and (mostly broken) 3_toed teeth. I was finding almost nothing. A lot of broken small shark teeth, combined with broken bones, and a modern tusk from a small wild hog.

In times like these , I keep the more interesting broken bones:

Here are the results of 6 hours of moving gravel yesterday:  As I said,not that impressive!!!  11 whole small shark teeth, broken bones that might be rocks. A modern pig tusk.

 

We get many new fossil hunters who think they have a fossil, but it turns out to be a concretion or rock or...  I kept 5 larger "bones" that I thought could be fossils rather than rocks...

So a little quiz... Is it bone or is it rock.  A little extra credit if you say bone and can actually Identify it.

1)

2)

 

3)

 

4)

 

5)

 

By the way,  the day picked up in the final 10 minutes. Both muscles and ligaments in my back were screaming bloody murder, we had the return to the truck to deal with and a very worn tooth fell into my screen... You can see it in lower right.  This is a horse tooth, and by size and design , it must be Nannippus.  I love little horse teeth,  especially those I do not recognize!

To see this with my eyes, let me show a Nannippus peninsulatus I found 4 years ago.  You see all those little squigglies ?  They are named "Plications".  This peninsulatus is likely 4-8 mya, so middle miocene.  As Nannippus type horses go back in time, the number and complexity of Plications decrease. This new tooth from yesterday has almost no Plication complexity. It must be really old!!!!

 

I'll get a reading on what this tooth is, and let you know. 10 minutes left... You never know what you might find.

 

[PrehistoricWonders]

2,4, and possibly 1 are bones I think.

[Praefectus]

Nice finds!

[Shellseeker]

3 hours ago, Familyroadtrip said:

2,4, and possibly 1 are bones I think.

 

Yes, this is one of the characteristics that allows me to differentiate between fossil bones and rocks... In 1,2 and 4 , there are sets of flowing lines like a stream and the lines are parallel.  So, no guarantees, but that is a pretty good indication that these are not rock.

 

So, once you eliminate these flowing lines,  the next thing that occurs to me is shape. Most/all bones have distinctive shape with knobs, groves, etc and even broken can exhibit aspects of that original shape.  Over time (decades) , a fossil hunter should come to recognize those shapes, and give such finds additional inspection. 

Here is a shape (unbroken) of one of the more common bones in my hunting environment, but the chance of finding one like this is almost zero.

 

ALL 3 wings can break off this Dugong Vert as individual broken bones. Is #3 above one of these wings (I believe they are called processes)?  Yes, it is....

 

An old TFF thread showed me what a whale/dolphin  Humerus looked like... and I found a small Humerus a month later..  I kept # 5 above because it's shape resembles a Humerus.. Is #5 above a dolphin Humerus... No, it is just a rock..... sometimes that happens...

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/82697-a-large-toe-bone/

 

So, kept 4 fossils and a rock... Know what 2 are... and need to form an opinion on #2 and #4...

 

Even a slow day at the river can be educational....

[minnbuckeye]

Hey Jack! Nice finds in my book. So the rivers are low enough to sift in?? We are likely coming down next month and as always, I would like to at least fossil hunt a little while my son is at work.

[Shellseeker]

11 hours ago, minnbuckeye said:

Hey Jack! Nice finds in my book. So the rivers are low enough to sift in?? We are likely coming down next month and as always, I would like to at least fossil hunt a little while my son is at work.

"Low enough" is subjective,  Mike. Some of us are taller than others, and are willing to take some foolish risks in deep water. Stupid and suicidal might be a better description that is used by a member of my household..

You never know with weather predictions and climate change, but it seems that the rains are abating here, and we were speculating yesterday that in another 10 days to 2 weeks,  we would be hunting the more accessible areas in the Peace River.

That is approximately on schedule, the longest the deep water kept me out of the Peace River was November 3rd.

With friends on the coast, we will likely have many spots to dig in a month. Looking forward to seeing you. 

[Shellseeker]

23 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

I'll get a reading on what this tooth is, and let you know. 10 minutes left... You never know what you might find.

 

So,  I sent photos of 2 teeth to Richard Hulbert,  Paleontology Professor and Director of the Vertebrate Research Lab at University of Florida, Gainesville.

Here is the other tooth , so that his reply is complete. I identified this tooth as Cormohipparion emsliei , upper Left, M1.  C. emsliei continues and accentuates many of the trends observed in earlier species of Cormohipparion, including increased fossette complexity (on average it is the most complicated of North American hipparionines) and pli caballinid development on both premolars and molars.

 

Quote

   Your identification of the Cormohipparion emsliei tooth is 100% correct.  The Nannippus tooth is a bit more difficult, as with wear the various species begin to look alike. So I can’t be 100% sure, probably even if I was able to examine the actual specimen. But I think a species level ID of N. westoni is the most likely option. We use the abbreviation “cf.” in these cases (a shorten form of the Latin word for compare). So if I was cataloging such a specimen into the museum database I would call it Nannippus cf. westoni. Also it is third or fourth premolar, not a molar (note broad parastyle and mesostyle; also a persistent pli caballin is more typical of premolars than molars in Nannippus).

Richard

 

Every time Richard identifies a horse tooth for me, I learn additional things...like how to differentiate premolars from molars on a horse species that is 9-12 mya. Clarendonian mammal age. I am indeed fortunate to have Richard Hulbert as a friendly resource.

[PrehistoricWonders]

@Shellseeker do you think any of these are older? The plications are a lot less complex than most others I have.
 

[Shellseeker]

46 minutes ago, Familyroadtrip said:

@Shellseeker do you think any of these are older? The plications are a lot less complex than most others I have.

 

Think about it this way. You are contemplating the start of a journey... it may take decades. But along the way , you will pick up knowledge and insights on how to identify small horse teeth.  you might get really good at this, BUT there is always going to be someone or many someones who know more than you do.

In my case, that someone is Richard Hulbert.... He knows more Florida primitive horses than anyone else I know in the world!!!!

I will start you with some facts and then some hints!!!

Facts: There is huge variation in the numbers and types of horse species on a common base,  across geographies. So, similar but different in Florida versus Texas vs South Dakota,  etc, etc etc. Translation: It is absolutely critical that you identify exactly where your horse teeth were found, bu you or someone else. I usually explain to fossil dealers that I will not buy any tooth unless they can convince me that they know where it was found.

Facts: The MOST important measurement on any tooth is APL = Length of the crown enamel.  The chart below is from @Harry Pristis.  Make a copy and follow it religiously.

 

FACT:  I can not tell you the age of a tooth, unless I identify the species 1st.

FACT:  You have given me neither the location found or the APL length.

 

Hints:

Your 1st and 3rd teeth are upper jaw teeth. The middle tooth is a lower jaw tooth, which are much more difficult to identify because they are so similar,  in terms of fossettes and plications.

 

Make sure you want to start down this path: If the teeth come from Florida, it is easier to Ask the University of Florida Florida Identification Service ( exact match to Richard Hulbert) what species this tooth came from...

 

Hint:  If you follow that last recommendation, many times Richard will tell you that it is to broken, worn, etc to be identified (That is MY experience talking)....

 

[PrehistoricWonders]

It would be nearly impossible for me to tell you where they were found, our (me and my brother) grandfather left it to us and bought it a long time ago, we’d guess Florida, because he lived in Florida and bought it from someone in Florida, but that’s as much info as we have.

[Shellseeker]

4 hours ago, Familyroadtrip said:

It would be nearly impossible for me to tell you where they were found, our (me and my brother) grandfather left it to us and bought it a long time ago, we’d guess Florida, because he lived in Florida and bought it from someone in Florida, but that’s as much info as we have.

Correct,  so this is early in your fossil career, and so for any other small horse teeth you may acquire, insure you know where they were found.

 

Also, no one (certainly not I ) could venture a potential ID, unless you provide the APL lengths of these 3 teeth. The middle tooth might be an Equus .sp lower, but impossible to tell without the APL size.