pleecan Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Can any one give pointers to a beginner on air scribe selection...settings ie air pressure recommendations, what to look for and lastly how to properly use one with regards to angle of attack, do we chip toward the fossil or away from the fossil.... I have an air engraver bought a few yrs ago Chicago Pneumatics CP-710 (may be this is the wrong tool?) and have not used it too much as I have damaged a lot of trilobites putting dents into the carapace or ended up breaking fragile crinoid stems into pieces... I have wrecked a lot of fossils in the past now I am chicken and use mainly air abrasion to prep fossils. Thank you in advance. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Could we add any recommendations for the purchase of a new scribe? Is there a best one for the money? Like Pleecan, I would like a bit more info on this tool from a more experienced member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Could we add any recommendations for the purchase of a new scribe? Is there a best one for the money? Like Pleecan, I would like a bit more info on this tool from a more experienced member. While you're waiting, here's some light reading: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?showtopic=6044&view=&hl=%22air%20scribe%22&fromsearch=1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 Thanks for the link Auspex. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Can any one give pointers to a beginner on air scribe selection...settings ie air pressure recommendations, what to look for and lastly how to properly use one with regards to angle of attack, do we chip toward the fossil or away from the fossil.... I have an air engraver bought a few yrs ago Chicago Pneumatics CP-710 (may be this is the wrong tool?) and have not used it too much as I have damaged a lot of trilobites putting dents into the carapace or ended up breaking fragile crinoid stems into pieces... I have wrecked a lot of fossils in the past now I am chicken and use mainly air abrasion to prep fossils. Thank you in advance. PL Hey pleecan. For every true airscribe out there in the world, there are about 30 billion engravers! In certain cases, engravers can be good. But like I learned since I was about the age of 14, "you get what you pay for". I have heard of guys sharpining the engraver tips to do a better job at prepping, but still... My first prep tool was one of my wifes steak knifes! Ha!! I graduated to a couple of small cold chisles and a small hammer and I thought I was doing a 'super' job, but I realizes something was missing? I bought my first ARO 8315-B and a whole new world opened up for me!!! I was in heaven!!! I used that ARO for a couple of years and even bought another one, but then I heard about the Chicago airscribe. I didnt have a computer way back then in the early 1990's and there was no such thing as a 'fossil forum'! Everything I learned was from buying stuff, testing stuff, experimenting and such. I finaly bought an ME 9100 from Paleotools and I fell in love with that tool. Now, I think ive got 5 of them? And also about 20 tips? Yes, these tools and tips are very expensive, but when you have the tools that can do the job, then you can be in fossil prep heaven like me... Or learn how to create new cuss words!! You can ask all the questions you want, but there is nothing better than experience to make you a better prepper! After you get the right tools that is. Im not going to get into the do's and dont's about prepping, just get started, take your time, dont get in a hurry, and try to remember that each and every kind of fossil can be in a very different kind of rock and the do's and dont's are different for them all. The other thing to remember is that there are lots of glues in the world. Try several and use what you feel comfortable with. I use mainly Glyptal mixed with acitone at a 5 or 6 to one ratio, and I also use the super glues, mostly the thin and thick viscosity's. There is nothing better than being your own teacher and trying all the different things that prepping takes and then knowong for a fact what works and what doesnt. Here are some pics of some of my prep tools. RB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) Thank you RB for the recommendations..... ... looks like I will permanently retire the engraver and go for the proper air scribe tools. here is the link to Paleotools http://www.paleotools.com/me-9100.html What are the advantages of 2" vs 4" stylus..... for general application what size of stylus? I thinking the longer the stylus the greater the probability of breakage? PL Edited January 1, 2010 by pleecan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Sometimes you can catch one on eBay. I got A Chicago Pneumatic CP9361 for a good price on there. You just have to watch for a deal (under $100). I think your engraver might be a bit heavy duty, but maybe ok for removing large rough farther out from the fossil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micropterus101 Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 You can blow fossils up with good scribes too Trust me I have been prepping for two years and still screw up. Mostly due to impatience Hopefully I will aquire that with age! It really just takes experience. Different materials fracture and chip away differently and experience is the only thing that will help you improve. Some cases you want to turn that scribe up on high and blow larger chunks of rock away like the Aturia I work out. The nacre is very hard to preserve. Trying to finesse just doesnt work, the nacre will go bye bye. Blowing off the rock in larger chunks creates less close in vibration which equates to more nacre in the end. Most of the crabs I work on it is best to finesse theres just two many details that will chip away if I try to go too fast. Gastropods and bivalves can have chalky shells. It is important to watch the shell as you expose it. If a crack starts I use thin super glue on the end of a pin head and touch it to the crack. The crack sucks in the glue and stabilizes the shell. I recently learned while doing the intricate work on crabs It helps to have rubber cement. when working on the claws probably work for other fossils two. I will put a strip of rubber cement on the exposed part of the claw. If it breaks I dont have to spend an hour looking through a pound of rock chips for the piece that broke off. The rubber cement holds it in place so I can easily glue it back on. When finished the rubber cement just peels or rubs off. experience, experince, the ability to learn from your mistakes, and common sense. 1 fossil crabs website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I cant really add anymore to whats been said, Cp pens and arrows are what i use....I think the recommended pressure to run the scribes is 90psi... I find it best if you stay around 80, tips last a lot longer..... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Thank you RB for the recommendations..... ... looks like I will permanently retire the engraver and go for the proper air scribe tools. here is the link to Paleotools http://www.paleotools.com/me-9100.html What are the advantages of 2" vs 4" stylus..... for general application what size of stylus? I thinking the longer the stylus the greater the probability of breakage? PL Hey Pleecan. I dont think you want the 4 inch stylus. Unless you have a lot of skulls with deep eye sockets you have to prep out? I use the two inch and resharpen them when needed. If your not prerpping super hard rock, one tip will last a long long time. RB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hey Pleecan. I dont think you want the 4 inch stylus. Unless you have a lot of skulls with deep eye sockets you have to prep out? I use the two inch and resharpen them when needed. If your not prerpping super hard rock, one tip will last a long long time. RB Thanks RB for your recommendation... I will stick with the 2" tips.... must save up now... And Thanks every one for your prompt replies. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I must add my thanks as well everyone. The ME 9100 with the 2 inch tip it is then. I already have a few compressors lying around and can use such a tool in other applications also. Good topic Pleecan, thanks for bringing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 (edited) Sometimes you can catch one on eBay. I got A Chicago Pneumatic CP9361 for a good price on there. You just have to watch for a deal (under $100). I think your engraver might be a bit heavy duty, but maybe ok for removing large rough farther out from the fossil. In the interim solution as I save up for the ME 91000... have purchased new Ebay Far East clone of CP9361/hose /adapter complete kit sub $100 with free shipping to try out... PL Edited January 3, 2010 by pleecan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoPutz Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 In the interim solution as I save up for the ME 91000... have purchased new Ebay Far East clone of CP9361/hose /adapter complete kit sub $100 with free shipping to try out... PL Can you send me the link the auction you won or post it here? I am curious to see what you got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinus Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 In the interim solution as I save up for the ME 91000... have purchased new Ebay Far East clone of CP9361/hose /adapter complete kit sub $100 with free shipping to try out... PL Here is my two cents. I think the ME9100 (clone of CP) is the wrong way to go for the stuff found up here. That device is for bulk removal of rock and not for finer work. I would recommend the ARO or clone of ARO. It is intermediate between the CP and some of the MicroJacks. It is the main tool that I use. I have the others (ME9100 and the Micro Jacks) but use them VERY infrequently. I have 2 ARO clones, one with the standard tip and the other with the 2" tip. I prefer the standard tip because the bulk of my work in done under the microscope and due to space (depth of field) the standard tip works better. I use the longer tip for work outside of my box/microscope. The longer tip is a bit girthier and therefore you have to have two separate tools. You cannot just change tips. You have to change part of the housing. Also, I have found that these tools work best at above 100psi. Too much stalling below 100 psi. If you do a lot of prep work it becomes frustrating. I adjusted my compressor to kick back on before it drops below 100psi but that also means that it pressurizes to a greater amount and that is usually above the manufacturer recommendation. Probably dangerous and illegal but.. It has been running that way for well over 5 years with no problem. The next time I buy a compressor it will be a larger one so that it is designed to kick back on at a pressure greater than 100 psi. This is my experience and I am not recommending that you do as I do. You need to decide what is best for your needs. If you know someone with a set up,I recommend you try it before you decide. Michigan/Ontario residents are welcomed to come by and try out my set up. These tools are pricey. My $350 Micro Jack has less that an hours use on it and I have had it for about 5 years. On the other hand, my $140 ARO clone has hundreds of hours of use and still going strong. crinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Thank you very much Joe.... you know the kind of fossils I collect is very similar to yours mainly invert. thus ... I do know there is no substitute for experience and when I see good advice then I go with that advice and the ARO Clone is a very plausible solution which I like very much... many thanks for the recommendation... I now know what to buy. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 For what it's worth, I completely agree with Crinus. I had a CP and used it, but it does remove the rock fairly aggresively. I bought a used ARO (not a clone) from ebay for a very reasonable price, and in the brief time I tried it before the weather got too cold, it does seem to be for much more delicate work. That being said, I did buy a new tip for the CP more suitable for prep work, along with some unprepped Dactylioceras ammonites from a UK dealer, and apparently they do their prepping with the CP. Something to look forward to this spring There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Thanks for the reply Kevin! In summary :The CP type for coarse work... ARO type for finer detail work. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoPutz Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Here is my two cents. I think the ME9100 (clone of CP) is the wrong way to go for the stuff found up here. That device is for bulk removal of rock and not for finer work. I would recommend the ARO or clone of ARO. It is intermediate between the CP and some of the MicroJacks. It is the main tool that I use. I have the others (ME9100 and the Micro Jacks) but use them VERY infrequently. I have 2 ARO clones, one with the standard tip and the other with the 2" tip. I prefer the standard tip because the bulk of my work in done under the microscope and due to space (depth of field) the standard tip works better. I use the longer tip for work outside of my box/microscope. The longer tip is a bit girthier and therefore you have to have two separate tools. You cannot just change tips. You have to change part of the housing. Also, I have found that these tools work best at above 100psi. Too much stalling below 100 psi. If you do a lot of prep work it becomes frustrating. I adjusted my compressor to kick back on before it drops below 100psi but that also means that it pressurizes to a greater amount and that is usually above the manufacturer recommendation. Probably dangerous and illegal but.. It has been running that way for well over 5 years with no problem. The next time I buy a compressor it will be a larger one so that it is designed to kick back on at a pressure greater than 100 psi. This is my experience and I am not recommending that you do as I do. You need to decide what is best for your needs. If you know someone with a set up,I recommend you try it before you decide. Michigan/Ontario residents are welcomed to come by and try out my set up. These tools are pricey. My $350 Micro Jack has less that an hours use on it and I have had it for about 5 years. On the other hand, my $140 ARO clone has hundreds of hours of use and still going strong. crinus Do you mind telling me where you got the ARO clone? I would love to have one of these tools, buy my wife would kick me square in the shin if I paid the name brand price. Thanks for the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinus Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 (edited) Do you mind telling me where you got the ARO clone? I would love to have one of these tools, buy my wife would kick me square in the shin if I paid the name brand price. Thanks for the replies. I got mine from a company called All-Air Products. I just googled them and here is the link All-Air Products I see that they still carry it. It is the Model 8315B. This would be the unmodified version. The modified version with the longer tips would come from PaleoTools.com They also sell clones but I am not sure if they sell unmodified versions. You would probably still get it cheaper by going direct. Paleo tools get their tools from another source and then modifies them to meet their needs. PS I paid $140 well over 10 years ago. It is probably much higher now. If you contact them and get a recent price, can you post it here. Edited January 4, 2010 by crinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoPutz Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Thanks for the info. I shot them an email and will let you all know when I get a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoPutz Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 (edited) This website has the tool in the link listed for $134 I think. I saw it on another site for around $160. I don't know how reliable or secure this company is though. It is the cheapeast I found while doing a little digging. http://www.mastersalesonline.com/taylor/t-7616.html Edited January 4, 2010 by PaleoPutz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinus Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 This website has the tool in the link listed for $134 I think. I saw it on another site for around $160. I don't know how reliable or secure this company is though. It is the cheapeast I found while doing a little digging. http://www.mastersalesonline.com/taylor/t-7616.html It would not surprise me if they are all made by the same company (probably Chinese). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoPutz Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 I got mine from a company called All-Air Products. I just googled them and here is the link All-Air Products I see that they still carry it. It is the Model 8315B. This would be the unmodified version. The modified version with the longer tips would come from PaleoTools.com They also sell clones but I am not sure if they sell unmodified versions. You would probably still get it cheaper by going direct. Paleo tools get their tools from another source and then modifies them to meet their needs. PS I paid $140 well over 10 years ago. It is probably much higher now. If you contact them and get a recent price, can you post it here. Interesting.... I received a reply from All-Air Products from a man named Robert Rossi. He told me the price of the 8315B scribe is only 70 bucks plus 15 shipping to my location. Can that be correct? I specifically asked for the price on the "8315B scribe" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinus Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Interesting.... I received a reply from All-Air Products from a man named Robert Rossi. He told me the price of the 8315B scribe is only 70 bucks plus 15 shipping to my location. Can that be correct? I specifically asked for the price on the "8315B scribe" Maybe you should call them and make sure that is not $170. But then again, the price may have dropped due to competition. When I got my scribe they were the only ones with a clone. Now there are several suppliers. Did they give you a choice of tip options. When I got my scribe they only had one type of tip. It was kind of flat and not really pointed. I ground down one of the tips to a fine point and sent it back to them asking if they could supply scribes with the finer tip. Soon after they did and even sent me several as a Thank you. If they do not have it, I think you can get them from Paleo tools to fit without replacing the housing. If it is $70 you should go for it even if it is the flatter tip. Just to be sure, you should contact Paleo tools and ask them if they sell tips for the ARO without modifications. I think the ARO STY STK PTL on their web page is for the standard ARO/ARO clone without modification. Price is listed as $24.50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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