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Help understanding geography in scientific paper


jort68

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Hey everyone! I'd really appreciate someone's help who could help me decode some language.

Here's a quote from a paper about a fossil locale in the Santa Ana mountains in Southern California:

 

Quote

One limestone lens (USGS Mesozoic loc. M949) contains fossils of Callovian age and is located on the East Fork of Ladd Canyon in the NW Corner of the SE1/4 SE1/4 of sec. 34, T. 4 S., R. 7W.

 

Where do I start?! Can anyone tell me how I might go about retracing this to a pinpoint on, say, google maps so I know where to hike out to? 

I have tracked down the East Fork of Ladd Canyon but that's as far as I've gone... 

 

Thanks for reading and again, any help would be much appreciated. 

 

Justin

:ptero:

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Thanks, doushantuo! I have been researching that with some fascination. Kind of an uncommon name to me. 

Any help with the geography too would be much appreciated!

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43 minutes ago, jort68 said:

Hey everyone! I'd really appreciate someone's help who could help me decode some language.

Here's a quote from a paper about a fossil locale in the Santa Ana mountains in Southern California:

 

 

Where do I start?! Can anyone tell me how I might go about retracing this to a pinpoint on, say, google maps so I know where to hike out to? 

I have tracked down the East Fork of Ladd Canyon but that's as far as I've gone... 

 

Thanks for reading and again, any help would be much appreciated. 

 

Justin

:ptero:

Reading Imlay, 1964 are we? ;) 

 

So, that location data is vague for a few reasons, mostly due to age and changes in how scientists handle locality data. 

"NW corner SE1/4 SE1/4 of sec. 34, T. 4 S., R. 7W"

This translates out to:

 

"The northwest corner of the south east quarter of the south east quarter of section 34, township 4 south by ranget 7 west"

 

Which helps you none at all unless you are familiar with the old USGS/BLM standards for land use grids. So, here is what you need to translate that for yourself:

https://www.ntc.blm.gov/krc/uploads/538/Specs_for_Desc_of_Tracts_of_Land.pdf

Right around page 9 you will get real happy I suspect.

 

The good news is with a proper USGS topomap of the area from that time, available for free on the web, and a bit of reading of the standard, you can figure out the location.

 

I generally find the site on the historical topo, then plot that on a modern topo, then use Google Earth to compare recent satellite images with the topo data. The beauty of that method is that G.E will then give you exact latitude and longitude. Sure, it takes a bit of effort, BUT that is how I was able to find all five ammonite sites in Cowboy Pass Utah, with out ever setting foot in the state before. True story, was able to hop out of the truck and find the first vein in less than ten minutes thanks to this method and a few older journal articles from the 60s 70s and 80s.

 

Please do not try to use google or apple maps out in the back country. That is how you become a fossil. Topo maps and proper compass use will save your life.

 

Ladd Canyon is some really fine hiking country, but make sure you go prepared!

 

 

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1 hour ago, doushantuo said:

"callovian" ,why:Latinization of the Kellaways (Kellaway beds)in the UK.

 

Thanks, Ben! :)

I didn't realize that.

Makes sense. 

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2 minutes ago, LabRatKing said:

I generally find the site on the historical topo, then plot that on a modern topo, then use Google Earth to compare recent satellite images with the topo data. The beauty of that method is that G.E will then give you exact latitude and longitude. Sure, it takes a bit of effort, BUT that is how I was able to find all five ammonite sites in Cowboy Pass Utah, with out ever setting foot in the sate. True story, was able to hop out of the truck and find the first vein in less than ten minutes thanks to this method and a few older journal articles from the 60s 70s and 80s.

 

Please do not try to use google or apple maps out in the back country. That is how you become a fossil. Topo maps and proper compass use will save your life.

 

Ladd Canyon is some really fine hiking country, but make sure you go prepared!

Excellent information! 

This is the kind of post that really helps many people. 

Thanks for the info!  :) 

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1 minute ago, Fossildude19 said:

Excellent information! 

This is the kind of post that really helps many people. 

Thanks for the info!  :) 

Thanks for the kind words....part of my love of this hobby is digging through the old research to find the sites for myself. I suspect @jort68 may be a kindred spirit.

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Here is a useful guide on PLSS.

plsstutorial.pdf

It definitely looks intimidating, but it's quite easy once you get the hang of it. Every state (as far as I know) has PLSS grids online. Here is the one for California.

https://data.ca.gov/dataset/public-land-survey-system-plss-sections

I would say learning to read PLSS was one of the biggest game changers for me in terms of finding sites.

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Sign up for JSTOR for free and look at this article about the Cretaceous fossils of the Santa Ana Mountains. There are some maps (A-D) that show outcrops and collecting localities in the Holz Shale Member of the Ladd Formation where the ammonites occur. Look for units labeled Klh.

 

Sundberg, F. (1980). Late Cretaceous Paleoecology of the Holz Shale, Orange County, California. Journal of Paleontology, 54(4), 840-857. Retrieved October 1, 2020, from http://www.jstor.org/stable/1304314

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My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned.   

See my Arizona Paleontology Guide    link  The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere.       

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Thank you so so so much for the thoughtful reply LabRatKing, you answered all of my questions. I can't think of any other way I'd get that info if you hadn't been so kind as to weigh in. Seriously awesome. This will keep me busy today!!! 
 

connorp, thanks for the link, i'll be looking closely at that!! DPS Ammonite, I had no idea this was out there!! Makes things a bit more easy to have another piece of the puzzle. Thanks so much! Thank you too, Paul. Crazy that these are all at our fingertips right now. 
 

I feel like if not for all my free quarantine time I wouldn't have ever realized all this historical research was out there. It's really enough info to fill a lifetime. 

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32 minutes ago, jort68 said:

Thank you so so so much for the thoughtful reply LabRatKing, you answered all of my questions. I can't think of any other way I'd get that info if you hadn't been so kind as to weigh in. Seriously awesome. This will keep me busy today!!! 
 

connorp, thanks for the link, i'll be looking closely at that!! DPS Ammonite, I had no idea this was out there!! Makes things a bit more easy to have another piece of the puzzle. Thanks so much! Thank you too, Paul. Crazy that these are all at our fingertips right now. 
 

I feel like if not for all my free quarantine time I wouldn't have ever realized all this historical research was out there. It's really enough info to fill a lifetime. 

@jort68 finding sites the way you are is my favorite part of this hobby. Sure one could google and ask around, but for me at leas,t the satisfaction of finding a site mentioned decades ago is almost as satisfying as realizing you're the first human to ever see the fossil when you find it.

@connorp good catch! i forgot about that link!

@Oxytropidoceras thanks for the links, i was on my mobile and didn't have access to all my bookmarks! (but I got 'em on the phone now!)

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1 hour ago, connorp said:

Here is a useful guide on PLSS.

plsstutorial.pdf

It definitely looks intimidating, but it's quite easy once you get the hang of it. Every state (as far as I know) has PLSS grids online. Here is the one for California.

https://data.ca.gov/dataset/public-land-survey-system-plss-sections

I would say learning to read PLSS was one of the biggest game changers for me in terms of finding sites.

I think that some of the original 13 colonies do not use PLSS.  I grew up in Massachusetts and it does not exist there.  

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14 minutes ago, jpc said:

I think that some of the original 13 colonies do not use PLSS.  I grew up in Massachusetts and it does not exist there.  

It varies. Most everyone now uses GIS as the base standard. Those with active PLSS, it is generally a leftover/archive...but as you say, this varies.

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geologic maps like these can be helpful too, however their usefulness varies by state. Generally if there is precious metals or coal and or oil in a state, like in California and Utah, the maps are highly detailed and available in numerous scales. https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1999/of99-172/sanana2.pdf

 

However if you live in say, Nebraska, they are pretty, but lack the detail as there isn't much of value here beyond limestone and sand, and it is fairly uniform.

 

Mine data can also be helpful in many places, but this is a newer tool that may or may not help you. https://www.mindat.org/

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Thanks so much for those new resources! It's interesting that industries like mining/oil would ever be beneficial to fossil hunting. If we didn't have their maps or their access roads or old mining sites we wouldn't know of a lot of these incredible sites of prehistory. 

 

I'll be looking at all those too. (:

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4 hours ago, jpc said:

I think that some of the original 13 colonies do not use PLSS. 

 

None of the original 13 colonies along with West Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee use PLSS.

 

Finally, Texas does not use PLSS as when it joined the United States. It kept the "public lands" within its state borders and ceded those lands outside of its state borders to the Unites States. These lands are now parts of adjacent states. 

 

Go see Public Land Survey System - Wikipedia and 1988 BLM map of the Public Land Survey System.

 

For geologic maps, go to The National Geologic Map Database and National Geologic Map Viewer

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6 minutes ago, Oxytropidoceras said:

 

None of the original 13 colonies along with West Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee use PLSS.

 

Finally, Texas does not use PLSS as when it joined the United States. It kept the "public lands" within its state borders and ceded those lands outside of its state borders to the Unites States. These lands are now parts of adjacent states. 

 

Go see Public Land Survey System - Wikipedia and 1988 BLM map of the Public Land Survey System.

 

For geologic maps, go to The National Geologic Map Database and National Geologic Map Viewer

PLSS makes it easy to look up landowners.  I tried it once in TX and it was very difficult, even with the help of the county office.  

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1 hour ago, Oxytropidoceras said:

 

None of the original 13 colonies along with West Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee use PLSS.

 

 

I was wondering why I hadn't seen any PLSS maps, being in Kentucky. Thanks for the insight!

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Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy)

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I think I’ll put together a guide to help fellow sleuths use historical data with modern tech the way I do. It’s not pretty and takes some effort, but it produces and prevents 127 hours.

 

what yinze think?

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14 hours ago, LabRatKing said:

I think I’ll put together a guide to help fellow sleuths use historical data with modern tech the way I do. It’s not pretty and takes some effort, but it produces and prevents 127 hours.

 

what yinze think?

Obviously I'm in favor. :DittoSign:

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