Show us your Squaliformes teeth !!!

[fossilsonwheels]

We got some really awesome Squaliformes teeth from our friend @will stevenson recently. These teeth really added to our collection and we so very grateful. 

 

Squalus minor

Eocene

London Clay Bed D

Burham-on-crouch

Essex UK

 

Megasqualus orpiensis

Paleocene

Woolwich bottom bed

Herne Bay. UK

 

Fantasic teeth from great UK locations  

[fossilsonwheels]

Will also sent us some really cool Miocene teeth from New Zealand. I believe we have our first Dalatias teeth plus a second location for Centrophorus. There are also a couple of teeth that I am not 100% sure about so I’ll invite @siteseer, @MarcoSr, @Al Dente and @Untitled to the party for ID opinions. 

 

cf Centrophorus sp 

Miocene

Greta Formation (I believe ) 

New Zealand. 

 

I think this first one is a Centrophorus tooth. Will thought so as well according to the label with the tooth. I will update these to reflect what I believe are possible ID’s. I have nowhere near the expertise needed so these are extremely tentative. 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by fossilsonwheels
Updated info

[fossilsonwheels]

cf Dalatias 

Miocene

Greta Formation 

New Zealand 

 

Could also be Centrophorus or something else in the order but I don’t have a Dalatias so that what’s I’m going with for now. 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by fossilsonwheels
Updated information

[fossilsonwheels]

Here is one that I am not 100% sure on. I think Dalatias but it looks at least a little similar to the teeth of Oxynotus. Enough for me to present this as one I’m uncertain about lol 

 

Regardless it is a really cool tooth. 

[fossilsonwheels]

cf Scymnodon 

Miocene 

Greta Formation 

New Zealand 

 

I am going to agree with @Untitled on this looking like extant Scymnodon teeth. Tentatively that is my ID

Edited January 18, 2021 by fossilsonwheels
Updated information

[fossilsonwheels]

Now the last one is interesting. I have seen a tooth on TFF from New Zealand, same formation I believe, identified as Scymnodon. I looked at extant teeth on the web from that species and I saw some similarities. I’m not saying that would be the correct ID of this tooth but it would seem that could be possible if fossil teeth are found there. Interesting and very cool tooth either way. 

[Untitled]

49 minutes ago, fossilsonwheels said:

49 minutes ago, fossilsonwheels said:

Dalatias licha

Miocene

Greta Formation 

New Zealand 

 

Pretty certain on these teeth based on other examples I found. 

I don’t see Dalatias in the 1st and 3rd teeth here.  Lower Dalatias are much less narrow and have greater slant on their crown, with the exception of the anterior teeth, which are much more broad than these.  I’m leaning towards Scymnodon; not sure about the 1st tooth here, but I believe that that genus may fit much better for the 3rd.  The 2nd tooth may be a Dalatias, but could be a number of other squaliformes as well.  I may add that all of the above options are exceedingly rare and hard to obtain in the shark tooth collector’s community, so congratulations nonetheless!

 

Best Regards 

Ben

[Untitled]

19 minutes ago, fossilsonwheels said:

ID’d as Dalatias so that what I’m going though I am not 100%. 

I’m leaning towards Scymnodon for this tooth as well.  Dalatias lowers tend to not be as narrow and dagger-shaped.  The faint and gradual serrations are beautiful on this specimen; very jealous!

 

Best Regards 

Ben

[Notidanodon]

Glad you enjoy them @fossilsonwheels I’m always happy to help your program

[MarcoSr]

6 hours ago, fossilsonwheels said:

Will also sent us some really cool Miocene teeth from New Zealand. I believe we have our first Dalatias teeth plus a second location for Centrophorus. There are also a couple of teeth that I am not 100% sure about so I’ll invite @siteseer, @MarcoSr, @Al Dente and @Untitled to the party for ID opinions. 

 

 

I really can't help with an ID for these teeth.  I have no knowledge of what families/genera/species of deep-water sharks are found in the Miocene of New Zealand.  I also have only a couple of specimens from the families/genera/species that you mention so I'm not really familiar with them either.  I looked at Cappetta 2012 and there are page after page of these deep-water shark families/genera/species from France and other locations worldwide and with the missing parts of your specimens I couldn't really get an ID that I was comfortable with.

 

Marco Sr.

[fossilsonwheels]

6 hours ago, MarcoSr said:

 

I really can't help with an ID for these teeth.  I have no knowledge of what families/genera/species of deep-water sharks are found in the Miocene of New Zealand.  I also have only a couple of specimens from the families/genera/species that you mention so I'm not really familiar with them either.  I looked at Cappetta 2012 and there are page after page of these deep-water shark families/genera/species from France and other locations worldwide and with the missing parts of your specimens I couldn't really get an ID that I was comfortable with.

 

Marco Sr.

Thank you for the effort Marco Sr. Really tough to ID partials from a location that I couldn’t find any publications on. 

[Dave pom Allen]

9 hours ago, fossilsonwheels said:

Thank you for the effort Marco Sr. Really tough to ID partials from a location that I couldn’t find any publications on. 

 

 These may aid in your identification

AN EARLY CENOZOIC NEOSELACHIAN SHARK FAUNA FROM THE SOUTHWEST PACIFI

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1475-4983.2008.00812.x

 

New records of fossil elasmobranch genera
Megascyliorhinus, Centrophorus, and Dalatias (Order
Selachii) in New Zealand

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288306.1984.10422527

 

 

[fossilsonwheels]

38 minutes ago, Dave (POM) Allen said:

 

 These may aid in your identification

AN EARLY CENOZOIC NEOSELACHIAN SHARK FAUNA FROM THE SOUTHWEST PACIFI

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1475-4983.2008.00812.x

 

New records of fossil elasmobranch genera
Megascyliorhinus, Centrophorus, and Dalatias (Order
Selachii) in New Zealand

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288306.1984.10422527

 

 

Very helpful for sure. Thank you. I had looked previously at that publication but a second longer look will help. 

[fossilsonwheels]

For the time being, I will say I also agree with Ben that these may also be Scymnodon. A second Sleeper Shark in the collection is a nice enough thought to go with that ID for now lol 

[fossilsonwheels]

Super happy and excited to add this to thread. A Pygmy Shark tooth !!  We got this from Ben @Untitled and I love this tiny tooth.

 

Squaliolus schaubi

Miocene

Near Avignon

Bonpas, France.

[siteseer]

Hi Kurt,

 

I'm just looking at these now.  What are the sizes of these specimens?  I'll dig out some papers later.

 

There are articles by J.A. F. Garrick that may help as well.  He wrote about modern squaliforms known off the New Zealand coast back in the late 50's but they are quite applicable and informative in general.  He passed away in 2018 at the age of 90.

 

Jess

[fossilsonwheels]

On 1/16/2021 at 9:42 PM, fossilsonwheels said:

Will also sent us some really cool Miocene teeth from New Zealand. I believe we have our first Dalatias teeth plus a second location for Centrophorus. There are also a couple of teeth that I am not 100% sure about so I’ll invite @siteseer, @MarcoSr, @Al Dente and @Untitled to the party for ID opinions. 

 

cf Centrophorus sp 

Miocene

Greta Formation (I believe ) 

New Zealand. 

 

I think this first one is a Centrophorus tooth. Will thought so as well according to the label with the tooth. I will update these to reflect what I believe are possible ID’s. I have nowhere near the expertise needed so these are extremely tentative. 

 

@siteseer  Hi Jess. This one is just over 2mm. I’d say 2.3 or so

[fossilsonwheels]

On 1/16/2021 at 9:48 PM, fossilsonwheels said:

cf Dalatias 

Miocene

Greta Formation 

New Zealand 

 

Could also be Centrophorus or something else in the order but I don’t have a Dalatias so that what’s I’m going with for now. 

 

 

@siteseer Jess this one is right at 2mm

[fossilsonwheels]

On 1/16/2021 at 9:53 PM, fossilsonwheels said:

Here is one that I am not 100% sure on. I think Dalatias but it looks at least a little similar to the teeth of Oxynotus. Enough for me to present this as one I’m uncertain about lol 

 

Regardless it is a really cool tooth. 

@siteseer right around 3mm

[fossilsonwheels]

On 1/17/2021 at 9:54 PM, fossilsonwheels said:

For the time being, I will say I also agree with Ben that these may also be Scymnodon. A second Sleeper Shark in the collection is a nice enough thought to go with that ID for now lol 

@siteseer  Top tooth a little over 1mm

                   Bottom tooth over 4mm

[fossilsonwheels]

On 1/16/2021 at 10:13 PM, fossilsonwheels said:

Now the last one is interesting. I have seen a tooth on TFF from New Zealand, same formation I believe, identified as Scymnodon. I looked at extant teeth on the web from that species and I saw some similarities. I’m not saying that would be the correct ID of this tooth but it would seem that could be possible if fossil teeth are found there. Interesting and very cool tooth either way. 

@siteseer  5mm on this one

[fossilsonwheels]

On 1/16/2021 at 10:08 PM, fossilsonwheels said:

cf Scymnodon 

Miocene 

Greta Formation 

New Zealand 

 

I am going to agree with @Untitled on this looking like extant Scymnodon teeth. Tentatively that is my ID

@siteseer  5mm

[ThePhysicist]

Certainly not novel to this thread

Squalus occidentalis

STH, Bakersfield, CA, USA

 

 

[siteseer]

Hi Kurt,

 

I was doing a little checking on what I have.  First of all, I see that the Greta Formation is noted as ranging from Middle Miocene to Early Pleistocene.  That's a wide range.  Are all these teeth from the same bed?  If so, are they from high in the formation or low?

 

As Marco Sr. has already indicated, it's a tough game identifying squaliform shark teeth to genus based on partial crowns with no documented comparative material from the local nor regional area.  If the teeth are Middle Miocene age, they might compare better with a Late Eocene-Oligocene fauna than with a more modern fauna.  If they are Pliocene age, they would probably compare better with a modern fauna.

 

So far, I've done enough reading to conclude I need to do more reading.

 

Three other references:

 

Herman, J., Hovestadt−Euler, M., and D.C. Hovestadt, 1993.

Contributions to the study of the comparative morphology of teeth and other relevant ichthyodorulites in living supraspecific taxa of chondrichthyan fishes.  Part A: Selachii. No. 1b: Order: Hexanchiformes — Family: Chlamydoselachidae; No. 5: Order: Heterodontiformes — Family: Heterodontidae No. 6: Order: Lamniformes —Families: Cetorhinidae, Megachasmidae; Addendum 1 to No. 3: Order: Squaliformes; Addendum 1 to No. 4: Order: Orectolbiformes; General Glossery; Summary Part A. Bulletin de l’Institut Royal des Sciences Naturelles de Belgique, Biologie 63: 185–256.

 

Underwood, C.J. and J. Schlögl.  2013.

Deep−water chondrichthyans from the Early Miocene of the Vienna Basin (Central Paratethys, Slovakia).  Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 58 (3): 487–509.

 

Welton, B.J.  1979.
Late Cretaceous and Cenozoic Squalomorphii of the Northwest Pacific Region.  Unpublished Ph.D. dissertation.  University of California, Berkeley.

 

Jess

 

 

[fossilsonwheels]

3 minutes ago, siteseer said:

Hi Kurt,

 

I was doing a little checking on what I have.  First of all, I see that the Greta Formation is noted as ranging from Middle Miocene to Early Pleistocene.  That's a wide range.  Are all these teeth from the same bed?  If so, are they from high in the formation or low?

 

As Marco Sr. has already indicated, it's a tough game identifying squaliform shark teeth to genus based on partial crowns with no documented comparative material from the local nor regional area.  If the teeth are Middle Miocene age, they might compare better with a Late Eocene-Oligocene fauna than with a more modern fauna.  If they are Pliocene age, they would probably compare better with a modern fauna.

 

So far, I've done enough reading to conclude I need to do more reading.

 

Three other references:

 

Herman, J., Hovestadt−Euler, M., and D.C. Hovestadt, 1993.

Contributions to the study of the comparative morphology of teeth and other relevant ichthyodorulites in living supraspecific taxa of chondrichthyan fishes.  Part A: Selachii. No. 1b: Order: Hexanchiformes — Family: Chlamydoselachidae; No. 5: Order: Heterodontiformes — Family: Heterodontidae No. 6: Order: Lamniformes —Families: Cetorhinidae, Megachasmidae; Addendum 1 to No. 3: Order: Squaliformes; Addendum 1 to No. 4: Order: Orectolbiformes; General Glossery; Summary Part A. Bulletin de l’Institut Royal des Sciences Naturelles de Belgique, Biologie 63: 185–256.

 

Underwood, C.J. and J. Schlögl.  2013.

Deep−water chondrichthyans from the Early Miocene of the Vienna Basin (Central Paratethys, Slovakia).  Acta Palaeontologica Polonica 58 (3): 487–509.

 

Welton, B.J.  1979.
Late Cretaceous and Cenozoic Squalomorphii of the Northwest Pacific Region.  Unpublished Ph.D. dissertation.  University of California, Berkeley.

 

Jess

 

 

Hi Jess

 

I have no additional geological information but I can ask @will stevenson if he has any additional information. 

 

All my ID’s are based on either Miocene papers I’ve looked at or comparisons to extant teeth and are best guesses. The labels are temporary lol They are hard to ID but it’s a great learning experience. Lots of reading and looking at teeth.