Heteromorphic Ammonite - Is it real?

[Wei Yang Low]

Dear all,

 

Recently I purchased a "Nostoceras Malagasyense" Heteromorphic Ammonite from an online platform. Initially, I didn't question the authenticity of the specimen, as the seller seems to have quite a few Cleoniceras ammonites for sale (which are clearly genuine). However for this piece I'm quite unsure if it is truly authentic, and would like a second opinion.

I understand that there is an Export Ban for fossils from China, but to my understanding that's for Vertebrate fossils (ammonites are invertebrates).

 

My main concerns are:

Is it a legitimate fossil?

Some parts look carved, but at the same time some of the striations look too difficult/ not worth the effort to forge for the price paid.

 

Thank you!

[Wei Yang Low]

More close-up photos of the specimen

Edited November 3, 2020 by Wei Yang Low

[Coco]

Hi,

 

1- please post your photos directly on the forum instead of giving links that force us to leave the forum,

2- if you had read the document you accepted by registering here, you would know that no monetary estimate of the fossils is given.

Welcome to our great community.

 

Coco

[Wei Yang Low]

2 minutes ago, Coco said:

Hi,

 

1- please post your photos directly on the forum instead of giving links that force us to leave the forum,

2- if you had read the document you accepted by registering here, you would know that no monetary estimate of the fossils is given.

Welcome to our great community.

 

Coco

My apologies as I am a new user. Literally created my account minutes ago. Am currently figuring out how to display the images without uploading them as files. Cheers.

[Coco]

OK, now the pics work. I can’t really help you, but it seems sculpted to me. I call a specialist @Ludwigia , answers will come.

 

Coco

[Ludwigia]

To my eye, an awful lot of this fossil has been carved to improve its appearance. It could be however be, that the basis is an original steinkern.

[Wei Yang Low]

18 minutes ago, Ludwigia said:

To my eye, an awful lot of this fossil has been carved to improve its appearance. It could be however be, that the basis is an original steinkern.

Hi Ludwigia,

 

I understand, thank you for your reply!

May I clarify if the definition of steinkern, vs casts & molds?

Would the definition of an an original steinkern therefore mean that this is likely an authentic ammonite fossil (which has been manually carved)?

 

Also, would like to seek your input- Would carving of an ammonite steinkern devalue it or is it better in its raw, unaltered form?

Thanks again.

 

-WY Low

[FranzBernhard]

Should I cry or should I laugh? Please reclaim your money, @Wei Yang Low!

@Ludwigia is spot on.

@Ludwigia, do you know the original matrix of this species? This sculpture looks like limestone to me.

Ok, its from Madagascar, so it must be altered in some way to be exported. 

Franz Bernhard

[Wei Yang Low]

39 minutes ago, FranzBernhard said:

Should I cry or should I laugh? Please reclaim your money, @Wei Yang Low!

@Ludwigia is spot on.

@Ludwigia, do you know the original matrix of this species? This sculpture looks like limestone to me.

Ok, its from Madagascar, so it must be altered in some way to be exported. 

Franz Bernhard

Ok, thanks for your input! Appreciate the help.

May I ask, for this particular specimen below, is it any different from the one I posted above?

 

[Wrangellian]

If there was ever a real fossil in there, any sign of it has been obliterated by the sculptor, as far as I can see. So I would consider it a sculpture, possibly created from raw rock. I don't know if it is the same rock that N. malagasyense occurs in, but that's a moot point!

I hope you didn't pay too much for it.

[Wrangellian]

Oops, you got another post in before I did - my reply was to the one at the top!

This one may have been an authentic fossil, but again, it's hard to tell, as the sculptor has altered it a great deal. I wonder if those apparent dendrites (the black marks) indicate an originally natural rock/fossil surface... 

[Ludwigia]

1 hour ago, Wei Yang Low said:

Hi Ludwigia,

 

I understand, thank you for your reply!

May I clarify if the definition of steinkern, vs casts & molds?

Would the definition of an an original steinkern therefore mean that this is likely an authentic ammonite fossil (which has been manually carved)?

 

Also, would like to seek your input- Would carving of an ammonite steinkern devalue it or is it better in its raw, unaltered form?

Thanks again.

 

-WY Low

Steinkern = cast. It looks to me that this was a steinkern which was not very distinctive in its details and was then considerably enhanced by carving to resemble the original form. As to your last question indirectly, in this case if I had found this myself, I would probably have thrown it away.

[Ludwigia]

53 minutes ago, FranzBernhard said:

 

@Ludwigia, do you know the original matrix of this species? This sculpture looks like limestone to me.

 

I believe you are correct.

[Ludwigia]

14 minutes ago, Wei Yang Low said:

Ok, thanks for your input! Appreciate the help.

May I ask, for this particular specimen below, is it any different from the one I posted above?

 

This one at least looks somewhat better and shows clearly that it's a steinkern. But it has also been carved quite a bit to enhance it.

[Wrangellian]

I might be wrong but the overall shape of the first one looks suspicious to me compared to others I've seen. If there ever was any original fossil to that first one, it was only a small part, I suspect, and the sculptor used his imagination to complete it.

The 2nd one looks like a more authentic shape overall, but the sculptor's aggressive enhancing would turn me off. So I would not spend more than pocket change for the second one (if that), and zero for the first - speaking for myself only!

[Wei Yang Low]

Thank you all! I've certainly learnt a great deal today. Appreciate you guys taking your time off to assist me. Cheers & have a great week ahead

[RJB]

Ditto to what Ludwigia has said.  and Wei Yang Low, this forum is a great place to learn.  I wish you the best of luck in all your next purchases. 

 

RB